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Armor/AFV: What If?
For those who like to build hypothetical or alternate history versions of armor/AFVs.
Hosted by Darren Baker
M2A4 Bradley - Urban FIST
toby2282
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England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: July 15, 2005
KitMaker: 194 posts
AeroScale: 8 posts
Posted: Monday, June 15, 2009 - 06:36 PM UTC
Hello,

I thought that I would share my next project as I am due to start it as soon as the base kit arrives.

Having read about the battles in Nasiriyah and Fallujah there was a definite need for a more heavily armoured support vehicle. The tanks were sometimes too wide to traverse the streets and the Bradley's could not always use their TOW's due to all the wires in the streets.

The M2A4 Bradley Urban FIST will be an M2A2 with Legends A3 update. It will have ERA fitted with the Legends kit. I will be fitting bar armour to the hull and turret rear to defeat RPG's fired at it from the rear. The main armament will consist of a 20mm vulcan cannon taken from an M163. Instead of the 7.62mm co-axial, a 40mm grenade launcher will be fitted. As the vehicle will be expected to be under heavy fire I will be fitting the British SWARM OWS which is of a lower profile and should not obstruct the CITV on the side of the turret. In place of the TOW I am going to scratchbuild a launcher for 4 x SMAW rockets for use against buildings and bunkers etc. I am looking at converting a Pearson Dozer blade for the front as a barricade removal device. As soon as I make some headway I'll post some pictures.

Let me know what you think.

Toby
mikeo
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: April 12, 2006
KitMaker: 325 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 06:23 AM UTC
Two thoughts:

How wide is a Bradley with ERA? (compared to an Abrams)

Sounds like you might be kit bashing with parts you already have, but did you give any thought to mounting a 120mm direct fire mortar in place of the 25mm Bushmaster instead of the Vulcan gatling?
Tigerbait
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North Carolina, United States
Joined: September 28, 2005
KitMaker: 347 posts
AeroScale: 179 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 06:47 AM UTC
Sounds like a sweet convertion/scratchbuild/kitbash .... Can't wait to see progress on this!!!
toby2282
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England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: July 15, 2005
KitMaker: 194 posts
AeroScale: 8 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 08:05 AM UTC
Thanks for the comments. I didn't think of a direct fire mortar as what I considered was what I had previously read about Israeli use of the M163 in Lebanon. Coupled with the high rate of fire and the penetrative power of the new ammo for the 20mm vulcan I felt that it was an ideal fire support weapon. I also did not want to scratchbuild such a weapon !!!!

I received my Legends M2A3 update set with ERA today, along with my Trumpeter Chally 2 with dozer blade. As soon as My M2A2 arrives I will be looking at how to fit the blade attachments to it and what will be needed to help it fit.

Photos to follow.......

Regards

Toby
calvin_ng
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United States
Joined: June 23, 2008
KitMaker: 1,024 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 09:13 AM UTC
is this a what-if? or did the bradleys actually have this mod, it would look really cool if it did.
toby2282
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England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: July 15, 2005
KitMaker: 194 posts
AeroScale: 8 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 08:24 PM UTC
Unfortunately it is just a "What If" and was never produced. I'm hoping that it will look okay when its built. My only concern is getting the dozer blade to fit, but I'm sure that this look right eventually.

Toby
gogs007
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Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: February 03, 2007
KitMaker: 300 posts
AeroScale: 5 posts
Posted: Friday, August 14, 2009 - 09:16 AM UTC
hows your model doing, i am looking forward to seeing the end result
HeavyArty
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Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,216 posts
AeroScale: 1,643 posts
Posted: Friday, August 14, 2009 - 02:37 PM UTC
Sounds interesting. I think you may be adding way too much weight to the vehicle though. Also, as stated above, by having the ERA and Slat armor, it is probably now as wide or wider than an Abrams. Further, the ERA and Slat would be redundant. Either the ERA or Slat are capable of defeating RPGs and most other direct fire threats. There is no need for both. Just a little thought on the realism side, even though it is a what-if project, it should still be technically feasible and practical, in my opinion anyways.
toby2282
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England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: July 15, 2005
KitMaker: 194 posts
AeroScale: 8 posts
Posted: Friday, August 14, 2009 - 11:14 PM UTC
Gino,

I thought that by adding the ERA and the dozer blae it would make the vehicle very heavy. The bar armour will be used solely to protect the rear of the vehicle as ERA blocks would be too dangerous to following friendly forces, so hopefully it would not add too much weight. I am hoping to start the build very soon as I have just finished buying the last of the goodies and gone through Pawel Vodniks build and correction article to mark out the changes.

Hope to be able to put some pics up in the next month or so.

Thanks

Toby
gogs007
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Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: February 03, 2007
KitMaker: 300 posts
AeroScale: 5 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 24, 2009 - 10:00 PM UTC
hows the model going
toby2282
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England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: July 15, 2005
KitMaker: 194 posts
AeroScale: 8 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 24, 2009 - 10:05 PM UTC
Not done as much as I'd wanted due to redecorating the new house and starting the extension!! Will post some as soon as I can.

Cheers

Toby
sgtsauer
#065
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Missouri, United States
Joined: March 30, 2002
KitMaker: 2,590 posts
AeroScale: 91 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 25, 2009 - 04:29 AM UTC
I think your conversion sounds like a lot of fun...If your intent is to just have fun with it, have fun and don't get to hung up on the details.

If your trying to maintain some realism, Gino has stated some excellent points.

Be sure to post progress photo's!
mikeo
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: April 12, 2006
KitMaker: 325 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, October 26, 2009 - 08:26 AM UTC
Have you thought of mounting the BLAZER ADA turret from an Trumpeter LAV-AD?

25mm Gatling & 19 shot FFAR rocket pod as is, swap the stinger launcher for a TOW or SMAW launcher and up armor the glass windows. Just a thought.
toby2282
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England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: July 15, 2005
KitMaker: 194 posts
AeroScale: 8 posts
Posted: Monday, October 26, 2009 - 08:34 AM UTC
Brent,

The idea of the build same after reading about the Fallujah and Nasiriyah battles and made me wonder what could be built. It is a bit of a fun build but has been delayed because of "life" things!!

Mike,

I like your way of thinking. My only concern would be could the turret survive an RPG hit? I do like the look of the configuration though. I've spent a little bit too much on the Legends updates so to buy the LAV-AD for its turret might be pushing it a bit too far.

Cheers for the ideas

Toby
mikeo
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: April 12, 2006
KitMaker: 325 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 - 01:18 AM UTC
Heck Toby its only money!

For your next model, do a competing variant - Surplus M60 hull with M-9 dozer blade, raised upper hull and heavy passive armor side skirts (like the IDF does to their old tank hulls), a heavilly reinforced Blazer turret and a pair of CROWS II systems.
gogs007
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Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: February 03, 2007
KitMaker: 300 posts
AeroScale: 5 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 - 08:33 AM UTC
what about putting the ffar pod on the bradley turret, a laser guided 2.75 rocket is in delevopment and i think a thermobarc version is available, so you could have a mixed load for all outcomes. look forward to the pics.
toby2282
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England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: July 15, 2005
KitMaker: 194 posts
AeroScale: 8 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 - 08:39 AM UTC
I'm going to scratchbuild a thermobaric 4 shot SMAW launcher in place of the TOW. Will post pics when I get chance.

Cheers

Toby
gogs007
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Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: February 03, 2007
KitMaker: 300 posts
AeroScale: 5 posts
Posted: Friday, March 26, 2010 - 07:54 AM UTC
is there any update on your kit
toby2282
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England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: July 15, 2005
KitMaker: 194 posts
AeroScale: 8 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 28, 2010 - 10:28 AM UTC
Sadly not. My wife had to go into hospital and as a result I've only just started doing some modelling again.

Toby
toby2282
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England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: July 15, 2005
KitMaker: 194 posts
AeroScale: 8 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 08:41 PM UTC
Finally got all the goodies for the build. Got some time now so the build has started. Will post some pics when I've built a decent amount.



Toby
dvarettoni
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South Carolina, United States
Joined: September 28, 2005
KitMaker: 778 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Friday, June 25, 2010 - 03:58 AM UTC
can't wait for this one good luck
dave
gogs007
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Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: February 03, 2007
KitMaker: 300 posts
AeroScale: 5 posts
Posted: Friday, June 25, 2010 - 06:36 AM UTC
hi
glad to see you back and i look forward to seeing the end result
Wisham
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Alaska, United States
Joined: September 05, 2007
KitMaker: 133 posts
AeroScale: 3 posts
Posted: Friday, June 25, 2010 - 12:26 PM UTC
Can't wait to watch this build.
dvarettoni
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South Carolina, United States
Joined: September 28, 2005
KitMaker: 778 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 12, 2010 - 08:31 PM UTC
Hey toby do you have pic of the build yet can't wait to see some after i'm done with my ZTZ-99a i'm thinkinng of starting another what if with an old lav-25 dave
toby2282
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England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: July 15, 2005
KitMaker: 194 posts
AeroScale: 8 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 14, 2010 - 08:16 PM UTC
Dave,

I bought the Blast Models set for the Bradley as the kit sprockets looked awful. However i went and put the final drive covers on too high which led to everything else being out. So I had to rip it all off, sand it down again, and then put most of it back on. I then went on holiday!!! Just got back so hopefully once mount ironing is completed I will get a chance to get some more donw and then post some pics.

Cheers

Toby