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REVIEW
DML's Winter Panzer Riders
bill_c
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Posted: Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 10:09 AM UTC
Bill Cross review''s Dragon's "Winter Panzer Riders 1943-44."



Link to Item

If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!
alanmac
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Posted: Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 10:39 AM UTC
Hi Bill

Thanks for the through review. They certainly look very good and I'm sure will sell very well. I know one modeller who'll certainly be adding them to his growing collection of unmade figures

As regards your comments over the boots worn can I just say two things.

First, I checked my copy of German Army Uniforms and Insignia 1933-45 by Brian L Davis and it clearly shows Heer troops wearing these felt/leather boots, on page 119 it shows picture 233 a "Gefreiter" preparing for patrol with these on.

Secondly, and far be that nobody makes a mistake, this box art was done by Ron Volstad and if Ron's drawn them then I'd put money on it being correct, as he has a wealth of knowledge and reference on this stuff, so buy with confidence.

Thanks for the review.

Alan
bill_c
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Posted: Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 10:49 AM UTC
Thanks, Alan, for your comments. Rudi Richardson and I discussed this, and I have stuck my neck out because the boots don't seem to be PEC: plain, everyday, common. The photos and illustrations (at least the ones I've seen) show the laced-up boots as most common, and that would have been the better option IMO. Regular army officers and non-coms certainly wore the the felt-lined boots, but among the grunts, I guess I'm unsure. I've been told that this particular sculptor is among the best, so I guess I could end up looking foolish.

But the set is very good and no one should hold back from buying it over something so minor.
RonV
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Posted: Monday, August 10, 2009 - 07:36 AM UTC
Please forgive me if I seem annoyed regarding the remarks about the footwear being worn by these figures. It is more curiosity than anything else. In this modern day there is so much available dealing with the uniforms of the 3rd Reich that I find myself perplexed by the apparent confusion.

My illustrations are based on almost 40 years of study of the subject and almost always based on contemporary photos. In regards to the Dragon figure sets, if my artwork is on the box, then it is certain that I researched the subject and designed the set and provided info for the sculptor to follow. These days, an alternate team is involved with the figure sets and I believe these are sculptor driven with the illustrator following what has been sculpted.

As for the felt/leather boots so obviously being worn by the figures wearing greatcoats; these are standard Heer winter issue and saw broad usage. These boots have nothing to do with Waffen-SS other than they too received them. There were never enough winter uniforms or boots to equip all the combat troops thus one often sees such mixed garments in a single group. Since the subject of this set was “Winter Panzer Riders” winter boots were a touch more credible than the lace-up boots (although these would not necessarily be incorrect).

The design of each figure set requires resolution of a thousand questions (well sometimes it seems like that) and having had a hand in more than 160 sets in the past 20 years, I can fairly say that I’ve made a few errors. Happily, I get to have them published so that the whole world can see them forever. However, it should be remembered that everything is done with a time frame in mind (deadline) and even with the greatest of effort, mistakes will happen. But this isn’t one of them.

Thanks for your continued support.

Ron Volstad



Shadowfax
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Posted: Monday, August 10, 2009 - 12:30 PM UTC
I am going to quote myself from a previous DML figure review...


Quoted Text

"I have been EXTREMELY impressed with the latest figures coming from DML. I have built two of the four German Tank Riders in winter gear (kit# 6513), and I would put them up against any Alpine figure. I know I will catch flak for that statement, but they are THAT good! It took Dragon a while, but they did it.

"My only complaint is that there are usually 2 good poses or subjects, and two, not so good. In this case the Machine Gunner and the guy kneeling would be my picks. At least in this set, they are all wearing similar uniform styles."



Now that I have built the other two figures, I have to amend that all four figures are outstanding. The poses are as natural in the figures as they are on the box art. These little fellas will definitely be riding my Panzer IVH - whenever I finish it.

Rod V., whatever Dragon did to capture your art in plastic figures, tell them to keep it coming! As for the German Army late in the war, clown shoes could have be accurate footwear.

God, I love this hobby...
Tarok
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Posted: Monday, August 10, 2009 - 01:29 PM UTC
Hi Bill,

As we've already discussed the boots issue off-line, I won't mention it again. Besides, looks like Ron and Al have covered it already

About the multi-part approach to the greatcoats, this tends to be a fairly common approach - Tamiya certainly having done it this way a few years ago with their 1/16 scale German MG'er in Greatcoat.The thing I like about this method vs. the solid cast (i.e. coat skirts molded to legs) is that it's so much easier to modify the flow of the skirt if it's thin and a seperate part.

Given that this is a relatively new kit it is curious that DML have elected not so supply Gen2 weapon sprues, however for me the lack of PE weapon straps is a non-event as these are hardly ever supplied in figure sets anyway.

As I mentioned off-line, it's worth nothing that DML have referred to these as Panzer riders, and not WSS Panzer riders or Heer Panzer riders, thereby making them suitable for representation as troops of either branch of service. This is supported by the fact that the troops appear fairly generic and there is nothing in particular that highlights them as being part of either specific branch. A great move on the part of DML IMO.

Apart from the few debated points, a pretty good first figure review. Well done and I look forward to your next.


Quoted Text

I have built two of the four German Tank Riders in winter gear, and I would put them up against any Alpine figure.



Hi Mark,

I respect your opinion, and everyone has different views. Unfortunately I'm one of those that differs from you. Having had the latest of both DML and Alpine (amongst other brands) pass over my desk recently I'm still of the opinion that you can't compare these 2 brands. That's just my opinion though, and as I said, I respect that your's differs.

Rudi
Kinggeorges
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Posted: Monday, August 10, 2009 - 09:42 PM UTC
Hi everybdoy !

Long time since I didn't post here !
And I can notice that there is still pain in the ass and boring discussions....(among some very interesting tips and tricks and marvellous models.. ;-))
It's funny to see how people can concentrate and quibble aout a pair of shoes....where as they should comment more on the fact that the poses of this set are absolutely lifelike, natural, they tell a story by themselves, and apparently the details are here, and even the heads looks quite goods (where it is usually a weakness of dragon sets)
So common dragon, big up for Ron, and keep up the very good work !

Julien

ps : if I may suggest, why not making ammunition strip in PE rather than in plastic ? Because frankly the plastic one are not very pratical. The PE could be a very good plus ! but maybe that's a question of cost, as always...
bill_c
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Posted: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 04:15 AM UTC
Thank you, all, for your comments. While this is my first figure review, I attempted to bring the same thoroughness and willingness to take a stand to it that I do in my armor reviews, which also rest on consultation with authoritative sources. If I have in any way come up short, it's my mistake and no one else's.

Rudi, I regret if I made it seem as though coat flaps were a breakthrough. I picked them out as an example of how styrene manufacturers have improved their work in recent years. In this particular kit, that includes using separate faces instead of just heads, a separate hand instead of molding it to the arm (though not on all the hands), etc. When I write a review, it's with an aim of reaching the average hobbyist, and not the specialist, so I can never be as up-to-date as yourself. I don't follow all the styrene figure makers, and certainly not other scales!

As to these being "generic" figures, I take exception with that as a license to have vague uniforms. It leaves the consumer in a no-man's-land of "neither this, nor that." Dragon's other recent figure sets have been specifically Waffen SS. If these aren't WSS, then presumably they're Heer, since I don't recall too many units that were designated artmaessig ("generic"). If Dragon didn't want to be specific to a unit, that's fine. But if the intention was to blur the distinctions and just come up with Winter infantry riding a tank, I still think that my critique holds. The figures can be adapted to WSS, but they also should be good for regular army. Hence my question about the boots!

Quoted Text

For me the lack of PE weapon straps is a non-event as these are hardly ever supplied in figure sets anyway.


An older set of DML "Volkssturm Berlin 1945" I purchased for a small dio included a fret of steel wire-rimmed glasses! It seems Dragon has regressed from that simple, but charming addition. A fret of PE may be unusual, but it's not unrealistic to ask for it. Manufacturers improve their products when consumers (and reviewers) make these kinds of observations. Slings are hard to scratch-build to a proper thickness, and AM PE slings are relatively uncommon. ABER and Verlinden have sets, but they're something your have to hunt around for.

Mark, I will respectfully disagree. While Dragon has really upped its game, styrene simply cannot match the best resin at this stage, at least the figures I have purchased. Some resin follows the rule "garbage in, garbage out"-- if the sculpting is inferior, then the resin just recreates that inferior sculpting. But when it's done right, resin still offers sharper details and finer molding. But it's not a fair comparison: this styrene kit of four figures retails for around $10-$12. Most resin figures from top makers like Alpine go for AT LEAST $15 PER SINGLE FIGURE. A duo from Tahk, for example, sells for $25-$30. This set is a very good alternative to resin, especially for those who can't afford it. And in terms of poses, I actually prefer these over the "heroes of the Soviet people" poses favored by Alpine. Those static, standing "heroric" sculpts are fine if your figure is the focus of the build, but for many modelers, figures are the supporting cast in a diorama that features an AFV or two.

Finally, Ron-- I realize it might seem annoying to have your decisions questioned, but as a reviewer, it's my job to "call 'em as I see 'em." I carefully looked into the issue of footwear, and even asked Rudi offline for his take on things. Despite his demurring on my conclusion (and saying "if he did it that way, it must be correct), and after much soul-searching, I decided that the footwear issue deserved metioning, though I did not reduce the overall score of the set because of that. There were other factors ("Gen 1" weapons, only bare metal helmets, single painting option). And while felt boots are correct according to you, you did not answer my query of why not ankle boots, which seem to be more common, at least in the photos I consulted? I can presume it was because boots are easier to mold in styrene than laces, but I'm speaking for you, and not hearing what your reasoning was (other than "because I did it that way, it must be correct").

While I respect your position and your research, you remind me of a potential Hall of Fame baseball player who feels "if I don't swing at it, it must be a ball and not a strike." Calling a point into question then prompts discussions like this, which (despite Julien's opinion) are good for the hobby, because they get us thinking about these questions. The resources I consulted (which are far from definitive) told me a different story than yours; it might be helpful if you cited a few of yours so we the ignorant could enlighten ourselves. If my sources are defective (and they very well might be), then please offer some books the rest of us can look at to know where I got it wrong. I'm perfectly willing to admit my failings, but I like to know where they are- and not just "I know better than you."

And very lastly, I really appreciate constructive criticism, and I hope my answers have not appeared defensive or prickly. If so, I assure you that was not my intent.
milvehfan
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Posted: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 05:32 AM UTC
Bill, A Very nice review on a Very Good set of figures. They will fit well into my modeling efforts. Thanks, milvehfan
bill_c
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Posted: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 06:14 AM UTC
Thanks, I appreciate the kind words. I think it's an excellent set, which my rating should indicate.