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Budapest Dio Update
AndersHeintz
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Sunday, June 02, 2002 - 11:57 PM UTC
Hola,
Been building a bit on the Budapest dio, have a base made, the basic building is almost in shape, I used a small saw, and sawed out the door and windows from a 1/4" Plywood, then applied numerous thin layers of Plaster of Paris (I hate the stuff btw ) Still aint 100% smooth and even as it should be, but will come soon. When I get my computer back I will post the sketches that Toni mde for me! Im going to start the Panther today, and figures will follow closely!!
I'll keep you updated from time to time as something semi interesting arises!
Envar
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Uusimaa, Finland
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Posted: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 - 05:53 AM UTC
So here´s the picture Anders was talking about. I drew this rough suggestion without figures, but the main idea was that Germans are retreating (direction from right to left) and passing a park with children´s playground. Just the human factor I guess.
However, I believe Anders will execute the idea in a totally different manner...it´s interesting to see how it turns out!

Toni

screamingeagle
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Connecticut, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 12:12 AM UTC
Hey Toni , the sketch looks great !
I wish I knew how to draw like that. I can paint, airbrush,
and build models, but could never get drawing pictures down.
Well I really look forward to seeing this joint effort by you & Anders.
I wish you both continued success !
- ralph
AndersHeintz
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 12:21 AM UTC
Thanks! I'll need it for sure
I need a slightly bigger base then what I have, but for now Im building the Panther G!!
I';ll keep you posted.
Weezul
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United States
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Posted: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 06:58 AM UTC
Looks pretty neat. Can't wait to see the finished product.
staff_Jim
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#002
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New Hampshire, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 10:32 AM UTC
Hmm....I don't know about that sketch. The Panther's turret looks wrong, and
haha! got ya! I'm kidding it looks great! Toni you have real drawing talents. I'm
curious about the shading. Did you do that on a tablet (computer) or paper and pencil?

Cheers,
Jim

Anders - Good luck with this project. Take lots of pics!
Envar
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Uusimaa, Finland
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Posted: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 01:25 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm
curious about the shading. Did you do that on a tablet (computer) or paper and pencil?


I drew it with just mouse and photoshop. Never got used to a pad, and that was the only thing available at 2:30 a.m. that night....It´s funny how the personal style of drawing stays the same no matter what technique is used..
Thanks for comments!


Toni
screamingeagle
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Connecticut, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 11:27 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks! I'll need it for sure
I need a slightly bigger base then what I have, but for now Im building the Panther G!!
I';ll keep you posted.




Anders if you or Toni need any more historical reference to the battle
or soldiers ( uniforms, weapons, etc. ) feel free to email me,
and I'll see what I have in my lttle home library.
.....I'd be happy to help if I can.
- ralph
AndersHeintz
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 11:40 PM UTC
Ralph,
Thanks!
Ok, I'll take you up on that. Could you get me a vehicle number and history behind a Panther G late model from either Wiking or Totenkopf, or any other tank unit involved at Budapest Also, I reckon the gear of the soldiers were pretty much anything they could get a hold of, as it was late in the war, anything would pretty much go, is this correct?
screamingeagle
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Connecticut, United States
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Posted: Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 08:03 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Ralph,
Thanks!
Ok, I'll take you up on that. Could you get me a vehicle number and history behind a Panther G late model from either Wiking or Totenkopf, or any other tank unit involved at Budapest Also, I reckon the gear of the soldiers were pretty much anything they could get a hold of, as it was late in the war, anything would pretty much go, is this correct?



Ok Anders -
Damn you would need a " G " wouldn't you. My books of reference here at home come up with A 's - A's - and more A's but I know their were AusF G's there.
Not to worry I don't give up that fast. I have a few friend's who can help me to help you.
So I'm on a mission !
However as far as the soldiers & equipment, they actually would have been still fairly equipped with their usual gear. Sice the first couple of months during the fighting was pretty cold, there would have been SS infantry soldiers wearing the " reversible winter parka's " with white side out and other winter clothing.

The box art below by Ron Volstad shows the absolute correct winter uniforms that Totenkopf would have been wearing during the winter of 1945
- The 2nd soldier from the left wears a 3/4 length sheepskin coat.
They also wore the " grey wool balaclava" ( a hooded scarf ) underneath their field grey Feldmutze or helmets
- 3rd soldier from the left wears the 1943-45 field grey tunic with cuff title and trousers with a 4 color "polka dot " pattern over a pinkish-tan background/base.
( this was a bit different than the pea-pattern ).
Also he wears the Russian style fur caps
Some helmet covers were seen with the "plain tree" pattern.



I'll get back to you soon as I get verified info on a Panther Ausf G from 3.TK or 5.WK
I want to make sure it's correct. I would not give you any info that I know to be false.
" I shall return "
- ralph
AndersHeintz
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 12:18 PM UTC
Ralph,
I have this set of figs and I'm planning on using some figures from this set. With some Verlinden or Hornet heads it should be ok!
Thanks for digging up info, f you find something, would you please tell me where and what kind of sources you look through to find this type of material?
Thanks again!!
screamingeagle
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Connecticut, United States
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Posted: Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 11:59 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Ralph,
If you find something, would you please tell me where and what kind of sources you look through to find this type of material?
Thanks again!!



No problemo Anders: I always use a broad network so I can compare documentation
of historical events. I thoroughly read & compare each individual source to the other, making
sure the historical data/reference fully coincides together as a whole. Therefore, what I look for, is that each individual source verifies itself against the other. If there is a discrepency between them, then I want to know why & how. So I will search further into the subject in question, until I can find if the discrepency is " bogus " or does have significance.
That's the way I usually do all my referencing no matter what the subject is. I just can't
see picking up one book, web site, etc and saying " yea, that's correct ". I feel one should go the extra mile to get a well rounded source of info - and get the facts straight.
I even reference the book itself & the author before I buy it. There are known to be some
author's who write books on W.W.II military subjects but have a total disregard for historical facts, especially when it come's to photo's and their caption's. That's where the reader need's to be careful. ( Sorry I rambled on here Ander's )

MY SOURCES FOR THIS TOPIC:
1). German Soldiers of W.W.II ( Histoire & Collections - by Jean De Lagarde ).
2). SS Armor ( Squadron/Signal Pub. - by Robert C. Stern ).
3). SS Totenkopf, The History of the Death's Head Division 1940-45 - by Dr.Chris Mann ).
4). SS - Steel Rain ( by Tim Ripley )
5). The Eastern Front 1941-45 ( by Duncan Anderson, Lloyd Clark & Stephen Walsh ).

- ralph
AndersHeintz
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Friday, June 07, 2002 - 12:10 AM UTC
I was loking through Panzer COlors III and found some cppl pictures from russia, 1944, they are form the second company, Wiking, and they have a special cammo, hard edged olive green over dark yellow with turret numbers in yellow and black. Although these tanks are Panthers Ausf A's and were in russia 1944. Were this unit in Budapest ?? Would be kool.! If you have the Pz Colors III book its on the page 18 and 19. Thanks!
herberta
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Canada
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Posted: Friday, June 07, 2002 - 12:29 AM UTC
Be careful using the Panzer Colors volumes. The pictures are great, but the authors have printed retractions before regarding the unit and color identities. That's not to say all the captions are wrong, but cross-referencing is important!

I'd help out here, but all my stuff is packed up for the big move!!

Andy
AndersHeintz
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Friday, June 07, 2002 - 01:00 AM UTC
Hola,
yeah, i read this somewhere else, and as you mentioned it, I think this was some of the pictures with the wrong text to it. They came out with a fix to this, and i have it printed out somewhere, however, its lost and I forgot where I got it
Thanks for the heads up!
screamingeagle
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Connecticut, United States
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Posted: Friday, June 07, 2002 - 01:23 AM UTC
Hey Anders, here's half the lowdown.
When 5.SS Wiking took their escape from Korsun, they were sent to Poland, near
the Kovel region and re-equipped with eight kompanies of Panther Ausf A's.
They adopted there own distinct camouflage scheme.
One of the 2nd kompanie Panther's 231 used a "Sand Yellow " base with
wide bands of "olive-green " & "red-brown " - or just the "olive-green " bands like you said
were also used.
Fourth Kompanies 411 had a base of of "red-brown " with "olive-green " and "sand yellow stripes.
Let me go now and see if I can find the 2nd part of the info you need.
I'll get back to you.
CHEERS
- ralph
screamingeagle
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Posted: Friday, June 07, 2002 - 01:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Be careful using the Panzer Colors volumes. The pictures are great, but the authors have printed retractions before regarding the unit and color identities. That's not to say all the captions are wrong, but cross-referencing is important!

I'd help out here, but all my stuff is packed up for the big move!!

Andy



Hi Andy - Man you are so right ! I just had generally stated about this in my reply
to Anders, where Igave the list of some of my book 's i used for ref's.
Like Anders said good 'Heads Up " on that. I'm glad to see that their are some
modelers who really pay attention & notice these things.
In many photo caption cases, we sometime really need to look a bit further in on
the reference's. You made a good point to always cross-reference a reference
- ralph
TUGA
#034
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Setubal, Portugal
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Posted: Friday, June 07, 2002 - 06:51 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Be careful using the Panzer Colors volumes. The pictures are great, but the authors have printed retractions before regarding the unit and color identities.

Andy



Here PANZER COLORS corrections you can have some corrections to PC i, II and III by the author.

It's a translation of an article at PanzerNet (spanish site) because the original article no longer exists (at least I haven't find it).

AndersHeintz
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Friday, June 07, 2002 - 10:59 PM UTC
Thanks Josè!!
screamingeagle
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Connecticut, United States
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Posted: Friday, June 07, 2002 - 11:04 PM UTC
Hola Anders !
Man, finding a Wiking Panther ausf G and it's vehicle # in an
authentic photo for this operation is a bit tougher than I expected.
But hold on, because I emailed a very reputable friend/modeler
of mine who is pretty much an authority on anything " W.W.II German ".
Soon as I get his reply, I will pass the info on to you
- ralph
AndersHeintz
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 12:32 AM UTC
Hola Ralph
Thanks for the time you put into this! Ive looked at pretty much all pictures and books that I have on the subject and still havent came up with anything either. Just out of curiosity, who is this reputable person? Since you wrote in such manner it mmade me curios
screamingeagle
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Posted: Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 01:08 AM UTC
Hi Anders - That's Classified Info !
( LOL - " just kidding " ) Check your PM for the answer.
- ralph