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World War II
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
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1/48 B-17F Build - 303rd BGs Luscious Lady
Redhand
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Posted: Saturday, May 30, 2020 - 06:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Brian,
All I can say once again is that I'm simply speechless. World Class modeler building a world class model. Just can't get any better then that.

joel



Well, Joel, I've been damn lucky in this mad quest. I am very reliant on the artistic skill of H.G. and the expertise of Karl to get this far. I am both grateful and kinda exhilarated at this point because we're beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Redhand
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Posted: Saturday, May 30, 2020 - 02:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Most of the Boeing built airplanes had that color difference. If you get at the right angles you can see the same on the horizontal stabs and the outer wing panels as well. Near as I can tell, Boeing had a different paint supplier and theirs was just a lighter OD. But it was not Medium Green that the sub-contractors used. I have experimented in achieving this effect and never seem to do it the same way twice. I have been using the MRP paints lately so I base the model in their OD 41 then go over the main fuselage and inner wings with their Light Khaki. But the contrast is not quite enough so that is something you will want to experiment with. And of course, the paint brand you use will offer other options.



Thanks for this! It will be a lively topic of discussion between H.G. and me, for sure.

Let me also "let the cat out of the bag" at this point about Vicious Virgin. Kind of by unspoken and then spoken mutual agreement, HG and I decided that after he finishes Luscious Lady, he will do a version of Vicious Virgin. It won't be as opened up as Luscious Lady, but it will feature other elements that we don't see in this build, such as open flaps.

These two aircraft of the two main B-17s that the crew I wrote about in Half a Wing flew, and I don't believe that Vicious Virgin has been kitted or done by anyone.

I'm probably going to tackle the aluminum finish 303rd B-17G Idaliza for the upcoming Eighth Air Force campaign using the 1/48 HK kit.




More on that later.
KPHB17FE
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Posted: Friday, May 29, 2020 - 09:44 PM UTC
Most of the Boeing built airplanes had that color difference. If you get at the right angles you can see the same on the horizontal stabs and the outer wing panels as well. Near as I can tell, Boeing had a different paint supplier and theirs was just a lighter OD. But it was not Medium Green that the sub-contractors used. I have experimented in achieving this effect and never seem to do it the same way twice. I have been using the MRP paints lately so I base the model in their OD 41 then go over the main fuselage and inner wings with their Light Khaki. But the contrast is not quite enough so that is something you will want to experiment with. And of course, the paint brand you use will offer other options.

Here are a few of my attempts:










Redhand
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Posted: Friday, May 29, 2020 - 01:56 PM UTC

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The reason you thought that was because you were right! I don't remember why I thought LL had the molded recess. Sorry to confuse things! I will go back in my hole now...



No need! Thanks for your input, as always. What makes these pics so hard to interpret is that the circular hole in front of the nose appears smaller than the one in Miss Quachita. Also, there is some external collar around the base of the barrel where it projects out of the nose of Vicious Virgin, which clearly isn't present in Luscious Lady. The way I interpret the two 303rd A/C is they they have the same nose opening, but Vicious Virgin's gun is seated somewhat farther back, and the barrel consequently doesn't extend as far out from the nose. That appearance is accentuated by that collar around the barrel outside the cone, which makes it look even shorter.

While we're at it, the formation shot of Vicious Virgin raises a question I've always wanted to ask you. The photo shows a prominent dark color on the vertical stabilizer. Some books have claimed it's because the subcontractor making the vertical stabilizer got the specs wrong and used "Medium Green 42" instead of standard OD (I forget the precise nomenclature).

I don't really buy that though. I think it's just a much darker shade of OD. What's your view?

KPHB17FE
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Posted: Friday, May 29, 2020 - 12:39 PM UTC
The reason you thought that was because you were right! I don't remember why I thought LL had the molded recess. Sorry to confuse things! I will go back in my hole now...
Redhand
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Posted: Friday, May 29, 2020 - 11:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text


I have a couple I will post here.



Karl:

I'd like your analysis of both Luscious Lady and Vicious Virgin from these pics. They are the best nose shots I have of both aircraft, and why I have thought (for years) that they had basically the same nose configuration.

Please lemme know your thoughts after studying them.

LUSCIOUS LADY



The length of the barrel out of the nose made me think that the full barrel (or most of it) extended through the nose. And check out the nose details below, with particular attention to the dark "conical?" base at the front of the nose.



And this one, FWIW.




VICIOUS VIRGIN

This is the best nose shot that exists, IMO.



From the other side.



You can see why I thought it might be like Miss Quachita.

And of course, the classic picture of the aircraft.

Redhand
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Posted: Friday, May 29, 2020 - 10:06 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

BTW, another question. Is Vicious Virgin's nose configuration the same as Luscious Lady's? (There's a reason I ask).



No, it is not. It looks more like the one on "Miss Ouachita" although the only photo I can find is not that sharp.



I have a couple I will post here.
KPHB17FE
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Posted: Friday, May 29, 2020 - 07:09 AM UTC

Quoted Text

BTW, another question. Is Vicious Virgin's nose configuration the same as Luscious Lady's? (There's a reason I ask).



No, it is not. It looks more like the one on "Miss Ouachita" although the only photo I can find is not that sharp.
Redhand
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Posted: Friday, May 29, 2020 - 03:04 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Not a head on view, but maybe this photo can help.

https://b17flyingfortress.de/cms/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/42-3073.jpg



Thank you so much! That's awesome!
pmontero
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Posted: Friday, May 29, 2020 - 02:37 AM UTC
Not a head on view, but maybe this photo can help.

https://b17flyingfortress.de/cms/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/42-3073.jpg
Redhand
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Posted: Friday, May 29, 2020 - 02:21 AM UTC

Quoted Text

It is not one of the ones in the Koster set. I have been thinking about making one but I have found no drawings and no head on view. We can probably come pretty close with the photos I have posted here. Hell, who can prove us wrong ! It appears to have the standard K4 mount on four posts albeit different from either the round one on "Miss Ouachita" or the later metal one. And of course totally different fro what we see in the Belle. I refer to this one as the recessed mount. Looks to me like they formed a recess and then cut out the nose for it. I think I have seen a more head on view so I will do some more looking. The best approach may be vacuforming the recess separately and a new nose, then cutting it out. Dunno, but will be worth investigating as I know you want it right !



Thank you so much. I had a feeling about this and scratch building. Sigh.

BTW, another question. Is Vicious Virgin's nose configuration the same as Luscious Lady's? (There's a reason I ask).
KPHB17FE
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Posted: Friday, May 29, 2020 - 02:09 AM UTC
It is not one of the ones in the Koster set. I have been thinking about making one but I have found no drawings and no head on view. We can probably come pretty close with the photos I have posted here. Hell, who can prove us wrong ! It appears to have the standard K4 mount on four posts albeit different from either the round one on "Miss Ouachita" or the later metal one. And of course totally different fro what we see in the Belle. I refer to this one as the recessed mount. Looks to me like they formed a recess and then cut out the nose for it. I think I have seen a more head on view so I will do some more looking. The best approach may be vacuforming the recess separately and a new nose, then cutting it out. Dunno, but will be worth investigating as I know you want it right !
Redhand
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Posted: Friday, May 29, 2020 - 01:44 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Before you go too much further: The nose cone and mount on "Miss Ouachita" is not the same as what was on "Luscious Lady". You need the deeper recessed mount as seen here:




Oh my! Do you have any head-on shots? Ugh! Am I correct that this configuration is NOT one of the vacuform noses in Koster's "Nose Job" B-17 set?

This makes sense, but it's a bit of a shock since I had assumed * * * NEVER ASSUME.

We will be grateful for any additional info!

Joel_W
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Posted: Friday, May 29, 2020 - 01:09 AM UTC
Brian,
All I can say once again is that I'm simply speechless. World Class modeler building a world class model. Just can't get any better then that.

joel
KPHB17FE
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Posted: Friday, May 29, 2020 - 12:23 AM UTC
Before you go too much further: The nose cone and mount on "Miss Ouachita" is not the same as what was on "Luscious Lady". You need the deeper recessed mount as seen here:






Redhand
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Posted: Thursday, May 28, 2020 - 03:50 PM UTC
PAN'S LABYRINTH (RETURN TO THE NOSE)




Well, I am exaggerating a bit. Anyway, we now come to the part of HG's return my prior work on the nose to create something closer to this image below.



It's pretty clear that Luscious Lady had this kind of nose configuration.

Before I get into a discussion about the Plexiglas nose, however, let me open up a "big reveal." If you look at the side windows of Miss Quachita you will note how flush they are with the outer skin of the fuselage. That's not the way they are in the model.



Also, no amount of polishing could get them back to the original clear finish that we both wanted.

HG and I talked about this and discussed various solutions and I have left it up to him to figure out how to install new flush windows in the nose.


How exactly he's going to do that I can't say. However, I decided to take a



we will finish the job approach to this. So, when the tools come in we shall see.

In the meantime, let's return back to the nose cone. To get this right, I also gave HG permission to go into the nose.





to get it ready for the tricky job of (1) literally straightening it up and (2) marrying the vacuform nosecone nose opening. Since this will involve also removing the cheek guns, because the windows are being replaced, he will be dealing with that as well.



These are "Master" brass gun barrels married to the outstanding stocks that were part of "True Details'" otherwise problematic resin sets for the B-17G nose and waste positions. I agree with HG that these are the single best one-piece depictions of those gun parts out there. It is a shame that they are apparently out of production now, but we have enough to do all the handheld guns in this build.

So, HG is starting where I left off with this:



And here you can see some of his preliminary work on this critical subassembly of the entire model. (I mean, it's one of the first things that anyone looking at the build is going to focus on.)



I should mention upfront that the vacuform nose you see here isn't the one for the final kit. It's what I was working on but we are going to use an extra I sent him for a cleaner presentation.

If you look back at the previous picture of what I sent, the one thing that he will retain is the metal nose gun bracket that reaches back to the sides of the nose opening. The resin ring to which the bracket ends fit is being discarded as unnecessary because he will be replicating it on the nose itself.

How you may ask?

Well, here is a start.





And yes, it looks pretty rough. But, note the transformation.





Stay tuned. I think things will get very interesting in the next few posts.
Redhand
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Posted: Thursday, May 28, 2020 - 01:58 PM UTC
LANDING LIGHTS PART 2

What follows are some excellent shots of the details that HG is adding to the light subassemblies. You will see lenses and you will also see the beginnings of his work on the delicate metal bases into which the lenses fit.












The comparison with the real thing is impressive, no?


Redhand
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Posted: Thursday, May 28, 2020 - 10:25 AM UTC
LANDING LIGHTS PART 1

I want to briefly cover some of the preparation work for installation of the landing lights in the wings. I had a pretty decent set of railroad lights for model trains that I thought would get the job done, but they proved too big.




At least the main clear lenses did, but we have another, smaller, red one that will go in the port wing with the main light.

All will fit nicely after HG finishes preparing the openings for the light fixtures.

Here is a progression of shots showing his cleanup and enlarging of the openings to fit everything in.







Obviously, there is more fitting work to be done on this one!

And here is the parallel opening on the starboard wing. This is the one that will only have the single, clear landing light.



I wondered what source HG would use as a substitute for the oversized railroad lights, and was told it would be "no problem" for him that make them on his own. I'm not gonna pretend to know how this he did this but here is the work in progress, culminating in an acceptable backing for the lens.









I can't argue with this one.

Completion of this part of the build has been postponed until HG gets some new tools that have been ordered. Another post should be up very soon.
Redhand
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Posted: Sunday, May 10, 2020 - 09:10 AM UTC
NOSE JOB

As mentioned earlier, H.G. is now moving to the nose. I've given him license to make whatever corrections are necessary, though we'll be discussing them step by step.

Here's what the nose looked like when shipped out to Edmonton a year ago. (Yes, it's been a year!)



You can see things got a bit shaken up in transit.

Here's the actual front Plexiglas parts I sent:



and there's this that goes around the Bombardier aiming panel.




Here's the nose configuration for Luscious Lady, to refresh your recollection.



H.G. started by tapering down the front fuselage opening along the bottom to ensure a better positioning of the nose cone.

He is now filling it to ensure a smooth mating surface.



Note the way he has elevated the nose on a cardboard jig to provide an easy working surface.



Note here how close the model looks to the Memphis Belle under renovation.





Damn! I like the contrast!

However, before we even think of putting the Plexiglass nose on there are significant repairs and additions just inside the nose opening that must be completed.

Stay tuned.
Redhand
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Posted: Sunday, May 10, 2020 - 08:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Still following this Brian - very nice work indeed!



Thanks. We're getting there!
rdt1953
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Posted: Sunday, May 10, 2020 - 07:56 AM UTC
Still following this Brian - very nice work indeed!
Redhand
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Posted: Sunday, May 10, 2020 - 07:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Looking good. I presume at some point he will want to address the landing lights. In the left one ONLY, there was a red passing light



Thanks, Karl. H.G. and I were actually discussing this last week. I appreciate the great picture. Far better than what I had.

Look for another post tonight on the beginning of his work on the nose.

Best,

Brian
KPHB17FE
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Posted: Sunday, May 10, 2020 - 06:19 AM UTC
Looking good. I presume at some point he will want to address the landing lights. In the left one ONLY, there was a red passing light:



What is a passing light you ask? Well, here is the explanation. There were many light systems on these combat aircraft that were not used, this is just one of them.

Joel_W
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Posted: Sunday, May 10, 2020 - 02:15 AM UTC
Brian,
The wings look fantastic. I still marvel at the rescribing. it's absolutely perfect. HG certainly make it all look easy, which is the true mark of an expert, as we all know that it's quite the opposite.

Joel
Redhand
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Posted: Saturday, May 09, 2020 - 12:44 PM UTC
LEFT-WING AND WHEEL WELL - THE STATE OF PLAY

H.G. is finished with the left-wing and wheel-well . . . for now. Here are two wing views, followed by many of the wheel-well. Enjoy.





Here are multiple views of the wheel-well.





















Next up: A return to the fuselage, finishing the nose.