login   |    register
World War II: USA
Aircraft of the United States in WWII.
Hosted by Rowan Baylis
56th FG Operations/Black Widow
BlackWidow
_VISITCOMMUNITY
European Union
Joined: August 09, 2009
KitMaker: 1,312 posts
AeroScale: 1,124 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 - 11:15 PM UTC
After spending 3 fantastic weeks of vacations in great Latvia, I'll be back at the bench soon with my last Campaign builds for this year. As a build blog is requested for this campaign, I will start my first ever ....
As far as I have noticed there is one aircraft still missing in this campaign for which the 56th FG is well known for, being the solitary USAAF unit to use it in WW 2 - the P-47 M. So I will build one but .... one of the early birds of this type without fin. I guess I can use also the D-Model for that, can I? Or must I change somthing which is visible in the end?
So here is my plan:
Tamiya 1/48 P-47 D, build as an -M ....

.... with the AeroMaster decals of "Miss June", flown by Lt. Eugene Andermatt of the 63. FS


And yes, it will become a dual combo again!
The other bird will be a P-47 D "Rasiermesser", again Tamiya 1/48 ....

.... build as "Ole Cock" from that great decal sheet of the book "56th Fighter Group Part 1" from our Nigel Julian. But I will paint it in its earlier days with white theater markings, as can be seen on the photos on page 18 in that fantastic book.
Please let me know, if there's anything wrong using the Tamiya -D for building the -M. I have also the Tamiya -M kit in my stash. Although I have other plans for that kit ....

Happy modelling!
Torsten
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 9,772 posts
AeroScale: 7,322 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 03, 2016 - 01:00 AM UTC
Torsten,
I'm subscribing to your duel build blog. I wouldn't miss this for the anything.
Joel
BlackWidow
_VISITCOMMUNITY
European Union
Joined: August 09, 2009
KitMaker: 1,312 posts
AeroScale: 1,124 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 03, 2016 - 01:24 AM UTC
Joel, glad to have you at my side!
AussieReg
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
#007
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Victoria, Australia
Joined: June 09, 2009
KitMaker: 6,238 posts
AeroScale: 3,483 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 03, 2016 - 02:55 AM UTC
Torsten, wonderful to have you join us and I am really looking forward to your dual-build here. I believe that the major difference with the M was internal, the engine and supercharger, so you should be able to use the D.

Great choice of markings for both builds, two very different schemes from opposite ends of the conflict. They will make a great display together.

Cheers, D
BlackWidow
_VISITCOMMUNITY
European Union
Joined: August 09, 2009
KitMaker: 1,312 posts
AeroScale: 1,124 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 03, 2016 - 11:45 PM UTC
Thanks Damian! I also remember that there are some differences in the engine and the cockpit between the D- and M-Model. Nothing to really worry about for me. Started with the kits today with some cockpit parts, so I can start painting the interior tomorrow. Not much to show yet but here's my work for today ....
Left side D, right side M
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 9,772 posts
AeroScale: 7,322 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 04, 2016 - 01:16 AM UTC
Torsten,
what color are you going to be painting both cockpits?
Joel
BlackWidow
_VISITCOMMUNITY
European Union
Joined: August 09, 2009
KitMaker: 1,312 posts
AeroScale: 1,124 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 04, 2016 - 01:42 AM UTC
Joel, I mostly use Revell Aqua Color paints and for the cockpits of USAAF aircraft I often use what Revell calls "Fern Green". In fact it looks far brighter than on their webside.
For the wheel wells and other interior I will use their "Reed Green", which is a bit more yellowish to me than on their webside.
You may remember my Tamiya P-47 Razorback called "Hawkeye" which I've build a few years ago. There I used the same paints. Any other suggestions?

Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 9,772 posts
AeroScale: 7,322 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 04, 2016 - 02:37 AM UTC
Torsten,
I checked the link for the colors and the Revell Green looks about right especially if it's a tad darker, as the spec was for ANA 611. Earlier Jugs were painted a color closer to Dark Interior Green, at least out of the Farmingdale plant.

The inside of the cowling was left Natural Metal with just a clear protective coating. The deck behind the seat and the sides of he Razorback were supposed to be painted the same color as the anti glare panel, which was Olive Green. The Wheel wells, and the rest of the interior of the was YZC, so that Reed Green should work as well.

One thing I really like about WWII aircraft is that the colors varied so much, that it's hard to go wrong.

Joel
BlackWidow
_VISITCOMMUNITY
European Union
Joined: August 09, 2009
KitMaker: 1,312 posts
AeroScale: 1,124 posts
Posted: Friday, August 05, 2016 - 12:31 AM UTC
Thanks for the detailed infos, Joel. After reading it, I changed my mind concerning Fern Green and took now Vallejo Interior Green 71010 for the cockpit which should be close to FS 34151.
No photos now, I'll give a small update when the cockpits are put together and I've done the detail painting.
Oh, btw, do you know if the wheel wells of the M were also painted in Zinc Chromate or were they left in NMF?

Torsten
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 9,772 posts
AeroScale: 7,322 posts
Posted: Friday, August 05, 2016 - 03:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks for the detailed infos, Joel. After reading it, I changed my mind concerning Fern Green and took now Vallejo Interior Green 71010 for the cockpit which should be close to FS 34151.
No photos now, I'll give a small update when the cockpits are put together and I've done the detail painting.
Oh, btw, do you know if the wheel wells of the M were also painted in Zinc Chromate or were they left in NMF?

Torsten



Torsten,
I'm really glad that my paint info was help. As for the wheel wells, I really don't know if they changed from YZC o not. My assumption is that they didn't.

Looking forward to your next update.

Joel
BlackWidow
_VISITCOMMUNITY
European Union
Joined: August 09, 2009
KitMaker: 1,312 posts
AeroScale: 1,124 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 07, 2016 - 11:26 PM UTC
There are some differences on the IP of the D Razorback and the M. I took the decals from the sheet - not placed 100 % correctly and used my strong softener Agama Hypersol. It makes no jokes with the decals, so I have to be veeery careful with it. Left side D, right side M ....


Cockpits are finished now. Here are some photos I made during assembly. Paint is Interior Green 71010 from Vallejo, which comes close to FS 34151. Seatbelts are made from Kip Tape and painted in Light Grey. First the office for the M ....




.... and here the cockpit for the D ....




.... everything fits wonderful together. It's like an easy assembly kit. I love the Tamiya engineering. Okay, their P-47 kits are the best kits they have in their aircraft program, I guess.


Next update soon
Torsten
Twentecable
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Overijssel, Netherlands
Joined: September 13, 2003
KitMaker: 339 posts
AeroScale: 244 posts
Posted: Monday, August 08, 2016 - 09:53 PM UTC
Hi Thorsten, nice build wich I will follow since I build a P-47 myself atm. One question, will you do a bit more weathering on the cockpits? It looks a bit clean to me...

gr TC
BlackWidow
_VISITCOMMUNITY
European Union
Joined: August 09, 2009
KitMaker: 1,312 posts
AeroScale: 1,124 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 - 01:08 AM UTC
Hi Lars,
just checked out your blog. Nice build so far. I will also follow that. What T'bolt will you build?
If you follow my builds here on Aeroscale (e.g. in my assembly line thread) you will notice that there's no weathering at all on my models. Just check out the 2013 finished "Hawkeye" from the posting above and you know what I mean. It's just that I don't want to spoil my work in the end ...
Oh, and while you were spending your holidays in Spain, I was at the other end of Europe, in sunny Latvia, where it was also always between 20 and 30C. A great place to be!

Torsten
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 9,772 posts
AeroScale: 7,322 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 - 01:21 AM UTC
Torsten,
Both cockpits really came out quite nice. The Interior green color looks pretty good to me, especially as you're depicting it as it's just off the assembly line. I've never really noticed the differences in the IPs before.

Nice to see that the two of you are comparing vacation notes. I'm on yet another week of vacation, and I'm spending it working around the house, and doing some modeling every day.

Joel
AussieReg
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
#007
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Victoria, Australia
Joined: June 09, 2009
KitMaker: 6,238 posts
AeroScale: 3,483 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 - 03:12 AM UTC
Moving along very nicely here Tortsen, both cockpits have come together well. As you say, these are both exceptional kits with no significant issues reported in the construction steps (except those created by the builder himself trying to modify things ).

Having a side-by-side build here of Razorback vs Bubbletop is great, a direct comparison of each stage and the differences in parts.

Cheers, D
Twentecable
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Overijssel, Netherlands
Joined: September 13, 2003
KitMaker: 339 posts
AeroScale: 244 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 - 01:13 PM UTC
Hi Thorsten,

everyone builds as he himself (or herself) pleases. It is your model. I will try to remember your style of work, but plz forgive me if I sometimes forget it.
Latvia seem to be nice, I will go there when the kids are a bit bigger.

gr TC
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 9,772 posts
AeroScale: 7,322 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 - 07:11 PM UTC
Torsten,

Since you mentioned that you're going to be converting the D to an M, but didn't mention how, I was rather curious as to what the actual differences were.

I'm going to admit that for someone who grew up approximately midway between the Grumman Bethpage plants and the Republic Farmingdale plants, both located in Suffolk county, Long Island, New York, I wasn't really sure what the visible differences were between the later D block bubble tops and the M version.

I already was aware of the fact that the M model only saw a run of 130 or so aircraft that all went to the 56th fighter group, and were responsible for shooting down of all 7 Me262 jets that the 56th achieved.

So a little digging turned up the fact that the M model was primarily designed for greater speed, and climb rate to catch up with and shoot down Buzz bombs. They tried to reduce any needless weight as well as a hyped up R-2800-57 eingine with the biggest Ge Turbo charger made, which pumped out 2,800 hp. The big eight 50 cal. MG guns were reduced to 6 MGs. Extra cooling fins were added to the cowling but I don't know how many nor how they were added, and there were dive brakes added to the bottom of the wings to help slow down the mighty Jugs after a dive at an enemy plane which could reach speeds approaching 473mph.

Are there any other modifications that you're planning on making?

Joel
BlackWidow
_VISITCOMMUNITY
European Union
Joined: August 09, 2009
KitMaker: 1,312 posts
AeroScale: 1,124 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 - 09:41 PM UTC
Joel, thanks so much for your research about the differences between both aircraft. I am surprised to read about only 6 "Point 50's" in the wings. I also remember that the main differences were some different cockpit parts and a stronger engine. In the meantime I have checked both Tamiya construction plans and the only things which are different are the mentioned cockpit parts and the fuselage fin, which I don't need on the early M that I build. All other parts are the same in both plans. So no really big trouble for me. I also checked Squadrons Walk Around, the only book about the P-47 I have, which goes more "into detail". But unfortunatly I don't find any informations about the M in there. So no help from that side .... Finally I decided to build this D kit as an M straight from the box. I'm far from being an expert on the T'bolt and if I don't see the differences I believe no one will notice my little "cheating" if I don't tell them .... At least it rests most time of the year on my "shelf of pride" at home.

Lars, no problem for me. I know my models do look different to most others and that's okay for me. On an expo recently someone told me, that models I have built need no introduction who built them. They are always recognized.
Oh, and Latvia is definatly worth a visit as all Baltic countries are. Last year I visited Estonia. Another beautiful country.

Damian, today I have only little workbench time, but I managed to glue some parts of the Bubbletop together. I guess I can give another small update next weekend.

Torsten
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 9,772 posts
AeroScale: 7,322 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 - 11:12 PM UTC
Torsten,
Like I said, I had no idea of the real differences other then the bigger engine and turbo charger either. Looking through the pictures I have and a google search turned up just one picture of the XP-47M with what looks like it has 4 MGs in the leading edge of the wing. At least that how it looks like to me, but the picture is pretty poor. I couldn't come up with a P-47-M picture showing the leading wing edge.




Whether or not the actual 133 production aircraft had 6 or 8 MGs I haven't the faintest clue. But there are experts on Aeroscale starting with Nigel who most likely know, and there is also the P-47 SIG and P-47 Heaven as well.

There is also the strong possibility that the original concept was for 6 MGs, but that was cancelled and the M was produced with 8 MGs to maintain it's tremendous fire power.

So I'm with you as to just going with what's in the kit box. As long as the finished build is up to your usual standards, it's a winner in my book.

Joel
BlackWidow
_VISITCOMMUNITY
European Union
Joined: August 09, 2009
KitMaker: 1,312 posts
AeroScale: 1,124 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 10:28 PM UTC
Joel, thanks again for your further research. I really appreciate that! Meanwhile I also had a look in my Osprey book about the 56th. And this is what I found.
The photo shows "Bernyce", a P-47 M (UN-P) of the 63rd FS where 4 MG are clearly visible. I believe, this photo was made in early 1945, so it should be a late M with fin. So I will leave all 8 MG in the wings.

Source: Osprey Publishing, Aviation Elite Units No. 2, 56th Fighter Group



Torsten
GazzaS
#424
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Queensland, Australia
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,131 posts
AeroScale: 1,784 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 02:32 AM UTC
Torsten,
I just found this. Gonna follow along! Nice work on the cockpits!

Gaz
BlackWidow
_VISITCOMMUNITY
European Union
Joined: August 09, 2009
KitMaker: 1,312 posts
AeroScale: 1,124 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 09:19 PM UTC
Hi Gary!
Good to have you on board, too!
BlackWidow
_VISITCOMMUNITY
European Union
Joined: August 09, 2009
KitMaker: 1,312 posts
AeroScale: 1,124 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 13, 2016 - 05:56 PM UTC
A small update from the T'bolt front. Did some assembling, sanding and painting over the weekend so I can do some more assembling in the next days. Still have to sand away the seams on the Razorback. Let's see how far I get until next weekend.





Torsten
AussieReg
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
#007
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Victoria, Australia
Joined: June 09, 2009
KitMaker: 6,238 posts
AeroScale: 3,483 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 13, 2016 - 07:31 PM UTC
Great progress Torsten, both builds are moving along very smoothly.
I checked in several of my reference books on the P-47 and the images of the P-47M all show 4 blast tubes on the wing. Whether this means that there are 4 guns mounted I'm not sure, but if you are modeling with the gun bays closed up, it makes no difference.

Cheers, D
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 9,772 posts
AeroScale: 7,322 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 14, 2016 - 12:37 AM UTC
Torsten,
Now that's fantastic progress on both builds.
Joel