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Armor/AFV
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REVIEW
SU-85 mid production
CMOT
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ARMORAMA
#406
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England - South West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Thursday, September 08, 2016 - 11:36 AM UTC
Andras Donaszi takes a look at the new MiniArt SU-85 mod 1943 mid production in 1/35th scale.

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If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!
hanb7323
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Daejeon, Korea / 대한민국
Joined: October 06, 2014
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Posted: Thursday, September 08, 2016 - 12:48 PM UTC
RIP Tamiya Su
spongya
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
MODELGEEK
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Budapest, Hungary
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Posted: Thursday, September 08, 2016 - 02:36 PM UTC
Yeah, my thoughts (To be fair that model is probably older than I am... early 70s or so.)
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
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Posted: Thursday, September 08, 2016 - 04:24 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Andras Donaszi takes a look at the new MiniArt SU-85 mod 1943 mid production in 1/35th scale.

Link to Item

If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!



Very NICE! I'll "opt-out" in favor of the MINIART SU-85 WITHOUT the interior, as well as the same for their new SU-122, as I plan to display them behind glass as "Buttoned-Up" "museum-style" pieces. They will be very lightly weathered, basically to show off their EXCELLENT exterior detailing...

Andras- You're RIGHT! The TAMIYA SU-85 (35072) was first released in 1975, 41 years ago! Anyone trying to make comparisons of these ancient kits to MINIART's new SU-85s and SU-122s would be being decidedly un-fair.

DRAGON, whom so far, we've left entirely out of the equation in ANY thread posted on this site discussing the MINIART 1/35 SU-85/SU-122 kits, released their first SU-85 (6096) back in 1998, and it was a pretty big improvement over the TAMIYA kit. DRAGON's second SU-85 (6415), released as one of their "Premium Kits", made it's appearance fairly recently in 2014, and it was much-improved over their earlier (6096) kit. Their (6415) SU-85 included PE and "Magic Tracks", and STILL builds into a very presentable model, albeit nowhere near in content, (Interior, etc.), to the MINIART Su-85/SU-122 kits.

I find it rather odd that DRAGON never DID do an SU-122. IMO, I think that DRAGON could easily have done so...

I'm also surprised that no one has heretofore brought up the most recent DRAGON SU-85 AND SU-100 "Premium Kits", (ESPECIALLY among the Russo-Soviet fans), when discussing the new MINIART kits. CLEARLY, the DRAGON kits are much more "comparison-worthy" vis-a-vis the MINIART SU-85 kits, than the rather un-fair comparisons made in other threads between them, and the antediluvian TAMIYA kits...
spongya
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
MODELGEEK
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Budapest, Hungary
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Posted: Thursday, September 08, 2016 - 05:15 PM UTC
You are right about neglecting Dragon -apologies. It's just I've not been keeping up with their releases since 2010, and have little knowledge of what they look like. I do have a Tamiya SU-85 built, so I guess I fell back to what I know. (To be fair only due to Ulisses' posts do I mention Tamiya at all...)
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
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Posted: Thursday, September 08, 2016 - 06:05 PM UTC

Quoted Text

You are right about neglecting Dragon -apologies. It's just I've not been keeping up with their releases since 2010, and have little knowledge of what they look like. I do have a Tamiya SU-85 built, so I guess I fell back to what I know. (To be fair only due to Ulisses' posts do I mention Tamiya at all...)



No apologies necessary, as far as you personally, are concerned. What I'm about to say does NOT include YOU-

Ulisses, I think, may only be trying to be included in the general conversations that we all share on this site. It could be very possible that his English may be limited, and many people MAY be misconstruing what Ulisses is trying to say. It's also quite possible that there may not be very many "military-modellers" in his home nation of Puerto Rico, and that Ulisses is perhaps looking "kindred spirits"..?

Just recently, I myself, have started to be more tolerant of what Ulisses has to say- My Dad spoke very broken English, and I tried to help him in making himself better understood as much as possible, so I can empathize with Ulisses, if that is indeed a difficulty that he is experiencing. Ulisses may not even be aware that DRAGON also made SU-85 and SU-100 kits. I disagree with him regarding his remarks about the MINIART SU-85s and SU-122s being "clones" of the old TAMIYA kits, but the "put-downs" that SOME other modellers are shooting at him like AAA-shells when he makes other remarks which are unrelated to the topic at hand, are UNWARRANTED, (and hurtful), in my opinion...

ARMORAMA is here for us not only to share and show our projects, and to ask questions, but also to have FUN, and not in turning this site into a "pecking-party"...

I've said my piece, and I'm sure that there will be some people on this site that disagree with me- I don't much care; I have my opinions, and everyone else has their own. I think it's pretty shameful that Ulisses has been treated in such a disdainful way, when he MAY only be trying to make some friends on this site...
hanb7323
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Daejeon, Korea / 대한민국
Joined: October 06, 2014
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Posted: Thursday, September 08, 2016 - 07:14 PM UTC
Hey guys I recommend you to forget Dragon's premium kit. Because Dragon will not that kits with same contents and price. Then Dragon premium Su-85, 100 already die and we can not compare them with miniart kits.
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
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Posted: Friday, September 09, 2016 - 12:09 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hey guys I recommend you to forget Dragon's premium kit. Because Dragon will not that kits with same contents and price. Then Dragon premium Su-85, 100 already die and we can not compare them with miniart kits.



The DRAGON "Premium Kits" may have "died", but one can still find them in stock with vendors on ebay, and Hobby Shops not listing their wares on ebay, as well. In case some of us may not have noticed, DRAGON kits' prices on ebay have been dropping, as they rightfully should, since there are A LOT of very competitive "new kids on the block", which is a GOOD THING...

I think that it's entirely appropriate to "compare" DRAGON's SU-85 and SU-100 "Premium Kits" to the MINIART SU-85s, considering that the DRAGON "Premium" SU-85s were "state-of-the-art" kits in 2014, only two short years ago.

All this proves, is that modellers have become MUCH MORE FICKLE!

Yesterday's "GEM" or "LITTLE JEWEL", very rapidly becomes TODAY's GARBAGE, as soon as the latest kit of the same subject from a different manufacturer, (or even the same manufacturer, in DRAGON and TAMIYA's cases), comes along...
spongya
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
MODELGEEK
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Budapest, Hungary
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Posted: Friday, September 09, 2016 - 01:29 AM UTC
Yeah, you are right about Ulisses. I feel bad now for feeling impatient and annoyed about his Tamiya claims. (Good thing I try to be polite as much as I can online. Not always succeeding but trying.) Now I want to buy him a beer.
KurtLaughlin
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Pennsylvania, United States
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Posted: Friday, September 09, 2016 - 02:06 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm also surprised that no one has heretofore brought up the most recent DRAGON SU-85 AND SU-100 "Premium Kits", (ESPECIALLY among the Russo-Soviet fans), when discussing the new MINIART kits.



Probably because Dragon's 85mm is a SU-85M and not a directly comparable vehicle and MiniArt's SU-100 hasn't been released yet.

KL
spongya
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
MODELGEEK
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Budapest, Hungary
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Posted: Friday, September 09, 2016 - 02:32 AM UTC
The differences between the SU-85 and SU-85M are not major- most of the vehicles are essentially the same. I think the comparison would be valid- and I think an M is coming from MiniArt in any way.
KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Friday, September 09, 2016 - 03:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text

. . . I think an M is coming from MiniArt in any way.



Maybe someone can talk about it then.

I don't see why the DML kit matters in relation to the Miniart one anyway. It should be judged against the real thing for accuracy and an objective criteria for engineering and assembly.

Let's say the real vehicle had a hatch that was 500mm long and Miniart made it (scaled up) at 503mm. Does it change your opinion of the kit to learn that DML made the hatch on their kit at 497mm?

KL
bilbobee
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Minnesota, United States
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Posted: Friday, September 09, 2016 - 05:34 PM UTC
Yes Dennis I agree with your statement about Ulisses, his comments was alot of fun, I always looked forward to read them. Yes some of them were a little far fetched. But with this hobby there are alot of creative people and smart as well, I noticed we agree about a subject but always add to it. We carved our own paths in this Hobby of ours. I've learned alot from everyone, and laughed and yes got mad. But in the end I always have FUN. Can not wait to read Ulisses next comment.
hanb7323
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Daejeon, Korea / 대한민국
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Posted: Saturday, September 10, 2016 - 04:00 PM UTC
I decide not to buy miniart Su-85 model never after reading your review. Very useful review. Thank you
hanb7323
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Daejeon, Korea / 대한민국
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Posted: Saturday, September 10, 2016 - 04:55 PM UTC
In addition poor plastic and tiny over engineered parts. It definitely socks. I save my money thanks again.
hanb7323
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Daejeon, Korea / 대한민국
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Posted: Saturday, September 10, 2016 - 04:56 PM UTC
Really socks.
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
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Posted: Saturday, September 10, 2016 - 09:21 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Really socks.



Hi, Byeol!

I don't mean to be a "wise guy", but I think you may have wanted to say that the MINIART SU-85 "sucks", not "socks"..?

Is MINIART's plastic still bad? I thought that they were using a better "blend"...
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
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Posted: Saturday, September 10, 2016 - 09:24 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I'm also surprised that no one has heretofore brought up the most recent DRAGON SU-85 AND SU-100 "Premium Kits", (ESPECIALLY among the Russo-Soviet fans), when discussing the new MINIART kits.



Probably because Dragon's 85mm is a SU-85M and not a directly comparable vehicle and MiniArt's SU-100 hasn't been released yet.

KL



Hi, Kurt!

Educate me- How different is the SU-85 from the SU-85M; In all seriousness, I really don't know, because I'm not much of a Russo-Soviet fan, to begin with...
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
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Posted: Saturday, September 10, 2016 - 10:16 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

. . . I think an M is coming from MiniArt in any way.



Maybe someone can talk about it then.

I don't see why the DML kit matters in relation to the Miniart one anyway. It should be judged against the real thing for accuracy and an objective criteria for engineering and assembly.

Let's say the real vehicle had a hatch that was 500mm long and Miniart made it (scaled up) at 503mm. Does it change your opinion of the kit to learn that DML made the hatch on their kit at 497mm?

KL



Hi, Kurt!

A relatively minor detail such as the real vehicle's hatch being 500mm vs a "scale" 503mm hatch vs a "scale" 497mm hatch wouldn't change my opinion about either a DRAGON or a MINIART kit one bit. I think that you know that I'm not really a "rivet-counter" to the nth-degree. I think that dimensions, quality, and overall appearance closely matching "to scale" to the real subject's features are more important than a couple of millimeters, either way. I expect my 1/48 P-47D or my 1/35 Pz.III Ausf.L to be nearly a "dead-ringer" to the real thing, but only shrunk down "to scale". Some of DRAGON's mistakes and inaccuracies with certain 1/35 US/Allied AFVs and Vehicles are pretty shameful. Their WWII German subjects, are another story entirely, just to be fair...

What I was trying to say, and maybe I didn't express my opinion properly, was that I thought that DRAGON's 2014 kit of their "Premium" SU-85, (actually an SU-85M), would have made a closer comparison to the latest 2016-technology SU-85 kit, namely MINIART's, as opposed to the ancient TAMIYA SU-85, which dates from 1975. There are nearly 42 years in age and technology between the two kits...

For example, how would one compare a 1975-issue MONOGRAM 1/48 P-51D to TAMIYA's 61040 P-51D which was first released in 1995..? The short answer is that you can't- Different molding technology, so the comparison would be decidedly unfair, if one were to compare the two kits part for part...

Of course you're right in saying that the MINIART SU-85 should be judged against the real thing. But sometimes that would be a bit impractical, so inevitably, you will find "model-comparos" on various hobby sites, as well as from readers on this site. Whadda ya gonna do? We all know that comparisons between older kits versus newer kits are nearly an "every day thing".

All I'm saying is that from the standpoint of the 2014 DRAGON SU-85M kit's age and technology, it makes a better comparison to the MINIART SU-85, than does TAMIYA's 1975 SU-85. I concede my error in mentioning DRAGON's SU-100, as MINIART hasn't released their version of the same vehicle yet. It's not too far away, though, so I expect that at least some small mention of the various virtues, or the warts, of each of these kits will come to the fore sooner or later...
spongya
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
MODELGEEK
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Budapest, Hungary
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Posted: Sunday, September 11, 2016 - 01:09 AM UTC

Quoted Text

In addition poor plastic and tiny over engineered parts. It definitely socks. I save my money thanks again.



You are welcome, but I don't think you're reading the review I wrote The plastic most definitely does not suck; about the overengineering you do have a point. To be fair I quite like these models, and MiniArt is not alone in providing challenge with their builds