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Yellow paint
Shrimpman
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Dublin, Ireland
Joined: August 14, 2016
KitMaker: 128 posts
AeroScale: 103 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 27, 2016 - 02:37 AM UTC
Hi
I'm building a F2A-2 Buffalo with a 1940 yellow wing paint scheme. I am experiencing trouble with yellow paint, I've used Pactra acrylics over Vallejo light grey primer (all paintbrushed). I've put on no less than twelve coats so far, as thin as I could, but still that's enough paint to make panel lines nearly disappear, and yet I can still see the underlying dark plastic/primer show through a little bit. I covered the wings best I could, but it's still not very good. How do you usually apply light colours to avoid losing the panel lines? Do you think it would be a good idea to etch the lines with a needle every few layers during the painting?
Jessie_C
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: September 03, 2009
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Posted: Thursday, October 27, 2016 - 02:55 AM UTC
Yellow is one of those transparent colours which always cause trouble. Try using white primer instead of grey. White helps to make the yellow opaque.

In your model's case, it's probably a good idea to strip it back to bare plastic and try again with white underneath
Scrodes
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: July 22, 2012
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Posted: Thursday, October 27, 2016 - 07:40 AM UTC
Undercoat with white paint

White can be just as finicky, so I usually undercoat with a metallic.


Jess is right - get back down to the plastic if you can.
Redhand
#0
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: January 20, 2013
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Posted: Thursday, October 27, 2016 - 08:22 AM UTC
Yellow is a royal pain. A very light grey primer, or flat white then the yellow is best, I think, but for heavens's sake use an airbrush, or if you don't have one spray cans. I could never do this successfully with a paintbrush. Successive, light, dry coats too, letting paint dry in between.

What scale, BTW?
Shrimpman
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Dublin, Ireland
Joined: August 14, 2016
KitMaker: 128 posts
AeroScale: 103 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 27, 2016 - 02:17 PM UTC
Thanks for the tips, Iíve decided to go with your advice and strip the paint. But since the paint is going off anyway, I took this opportunity to experiment a little bit.
1 - Iíve found the needle etch did not work Ė dragging the needle along the panel line created a series of ugly chips instead of a recessed line.
2 Ė Iíve tried to do a sort of no-airbrush pre-shade Ė Iíve very lightly traced the panel lines with a sharp, very soft pencil, then smeared it up along the lines with a cotton ear bud, and then painted it over with yet another coat of yellow. I actually really liked the result, it looks ok, at least as far as my standards are concerned.
3 Ė I have lightly sanded the surface with a really fine sanding paper that was so used up it was almost bare. This was the most surprising Ė I think somehow the paint all of a sudden got a better cover, I cannot see the dark shades showing through anymore.
I will try this when I give it another go.
Unfortunately I am allergic to airbrush, although I really liked the results, Iíve found the tool a constant source of frustration that eventually put me off scale modelling for almost 15 years. About a year ago I got a Spitfire as a birthday gift and thought to myself ďNo one is going to see it anyway, I will old-school paintbrush the whole thingĒ and actually I had a blast. Canít stop building since then.
The plane Iím building is 1:72 F2A-2 Buffalo by Special Hobby. Itís got its highs and lows, parts are made beautifully, but no two of them fit together without major modifications, everything is out of alignment, there are huge gaps, attaching wings to the fuselage requires a degree in engineering, I donít think theyíve actually attempted to build this model before they released it. I would not recommend it.
SteveAndrews
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: August 16, 2010
KitMaker: 636 posts
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Posted: Thursday, October 27, 2016 - 02:41 PM UTC
Hey there.

The other people replying have said it all about yellow. I just wanted to chip about airbrushing. I completely understand the frustrations (they never really go away completely), but...

...if you persevere and take the advice of the many experienced modellers here and elsewhere on the net you can get past the problems. Airbrushing can get you a smooth consistent layer of paint that I would say is impossible with a brush.

My advice is experiment on something other than a model you care about. In a short time you can learn to manage the problems and enjoy a level of finish that is really rewarding. Its a bit like learning to ride a bike or play an instrument - you have to learn the skill but once you have it, wonderful things can happen.

Having said all that, if you really prefer brush work then more power to you. The whole point is to enjoy the experience, right?

Happy modelling.

Steve

P.S. I've built some lousy kits in my time, and in fact I'm working on one now - Italeri's Mirage IIIc in 1/32 scale. While they can be a pain, they can also teach a lot too. Whatever happens, enjoy the journey :-)

lespauljames
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England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: January 06, 2007
KitMaker: 3,661 posts
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Posted: Thursday, October 27, 2016 - 06:32 PM UTC
I echo the comments about painting white underneath first, yellow is a notoriously difficult paint to lay down correctly. Hit it with a flat white first, or yellow and white 50/50. then layer on the yellow thinly and build it up. Its horrible to brush paint, so it might be handy to keep a can of yellow spray handy for times when you need it
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
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New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
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Posted: Thursday, October 27, 2016 - 08:54 PM UTC

The color you're trying to duplicate is Chrome Yellow FS13538, which has a gloss shine to it, so it's harder to apply then a generic flat yellow. For any light bright color I prime that area with a gray primer while the rest of the aircraft is now primed in black. Then a few coats of flat white, followed by light coats of the Chrome yellow.

In order to achieve a uniform coat that doesn't build up in the recessed panel lines, air brushing is the only way to go. I understand that you're allergic to fumes, does that include Lacquers, Enamels, and all the various Acrylics?

What I've done to eliminate breathing in any more paint fumes then I've alrleady done since the 1970s is to build my own spray paint booth that fits directly into a open window and held in place by closing the window down on it. I fill the large opening on one side with a piece of foam. I also purchased a spray mask for $30 so I don't breath in any of the over spray, nor when I'm to lazy to setup the booth.

Joel
Jessie_C
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: September 03, 2009
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Posted: Friday, October 28, 2016 - 02:06 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The plane Iím building is 1:72 F2A-2 Buffalo by Special Hobby.



Well there's your problem. Special Hobby kits are what's known in the business as "Short Run". They're not so dire as Merlin kits, but they're nowhere near to a Tamiya kit in terms of ease of building. They're made for builders who have a considerable supply of modelling skills are aren't afraid to make parts fit.

I recommend that you put any more Special Hobby kits you may have aside for a while and concentrate on building kits that actually fit together. New Airfix, new Revell and Tamiya kits are your friends

The reward for doing a Special Hobby kit is a model that few people attempt; you've discovered the reason why.
Shrimpman
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Dublin, Ireland
Joined: August 14, 2016
KitMaker: 128 posts
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Posted: Friday, October 28, 2016 - 04:12 PM UTC
Yes, I can see that The reason I picked this plane was that I wanted to try a model with resin parts and see if I liked it. So far the model seems a bizzare mix of beautiful detail and rather sloppy finish. It proved to be a huge challenge so far, but I did learn a lot. I've already messed up several important structural things, so the plane will never be display one, but I intend to finish it to my best anyway. Thanks for all the advice!
Shrimpman
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Dublin, Ireland
Joined: August 14, 2016
KitMaker: 128 posts
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Posted: Saturday, December 03, 2016 - 07:12 PM UTC
That was my final and the most successful attempt. Yellow cover is still much too thick, but much better than when I first started. That model gave me headaches, but I've learned a lot. Thanks for all the advice!
bomber14
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New Jersey, United States
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Posted: Saturday, December 03, 2016 - 07:57 PM UTC
you might also try next time to prime with a flat yellow then the chrome yellow. that is what we car modelers use when we are using a thin light color, or like was suggested here a metallic base color. another words prime with a flat color close to the top color to avoid patchy show through.
i have to agree with everyone here, buy an airbrush or use spray cans. but it doesn't look too bad from here. good job on the pre/post shading. you may need a gloss or semi gloss clearcote though.

joel is right, you need a good spraybooth and a resperator specificlly for paint fumes. his idea to put it in the window is a great idea. wish i had thought of it.

joe
Fledermaus
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New York, United States
Joined: January 05, 2007
KitMaker: 236 posts
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Posted: Saturday, December 03, 2016 - 08:50 PM UTC
Dude, it came out pretty nice! How about some more photos.
drabslab
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European Union
Joined: September 28, 2004
KitMaker: 2,172 posts
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Posted: Saturday, December 03, 2016 - 11:35 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Dude, it came out pretty nice! How about some more photos.



Yes indeed, pretty good results!

Shrimpman
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Dublin, Ireland
Joined: August 14, 2016
KitMaker: 128 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 04, 2016 - 05:02 AM UTC
Thank you, I tried my best. I was struggling with it very badly, it was clearly beyond my skills, but I was determined not to give up. In the end it came out much better than I expected and I've learned a lot. I've got some other angles on it, the lighting is quite bad, but I'm afraid proper sunshine is a very rare commodity in Ireland.









Scrodes
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: July 22, 2012
KitMaker: 771 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 04, 2016 - 07:48 AM UTC
It looks good! You should be proud of that one. Submit it to the model of the month competition when it's open again.
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
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New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
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Posted: Monday, December 05, 2016 - 12:34 AM UTC
Nicely done. not many modelers would have stayed the course.

If you hand painted it, then I'm really impressed AS I don't see any brush strokes.
Joel
Shrimpman
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Dublin, Ireland
Joined: August 14, 2016
KitMaker: 128 posts
AeroScale: 103 posts
Posted: Monday, December 05, 2016 - 07:04 PM UTC
Thank you for the feedback! Itís good to hear I am making some progress. I would not be submitting this model to any competition though, unfortunately Iíve ruined it beyond repair at the early stages. Maybe it does not show on the photos, but the wings and tail are misaligned, when the plane stands on the wheels, the tail is rotated about 15 degrees to one side. Thatís due to the fact that the wing roots were cut straight, while the fuselage is round, meaning I had to sand down the wing root until I had the curve. Unfortunately Iíve messed this up and the left wing turned out to slightly out of plane. I only realised that when it was already cemented rock solid.