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World War II
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
1/32 Trumpeter F4F-3 Grumman Wildcat Build
thegirl
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: January 19, 2008
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Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 12:31 PM GMT+7
She is really starting to take shape now , looking good Joel !



Terri
berndm
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Niedersachsen, Germany
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Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 08:36 PM GMT+7
Looks good Joel, as Terri said its taking really shape.

Lining up stabilisers and wings is often difficult and if it sits not correctly some bending will help, after all its plastic and somewhat flexible.

Bernd
Joel_W
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New York, United States
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Posted: Saturday, February 11, 2017 - 05:10 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

She is really starting to take shape now , looking good Joel !

Terri



Terri,
Much appreciated you stopping by and having a look. Slowly but surely it's starting to look like a Grumman Wildcat.

Joel
Joel_W
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New York, United States
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Posted: Saturday, February 11, 2017 - 05:11 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Looks good Joel, as Terri said its taking really shape.

Lining up stabilisers and wings is often difficult and if it sits not correctly some bending will help, after all its plastic and somewhat flexible.

Bernd



Bernd,
It's one of the hardest things for me to get right. Like I said, even with coat after coat of Extra Thin that Stabilizer just didn't want to budge. Got to the point that I was concerned about just snapping it off, as plastic will do that all of a sudden.

Joel
c4willy
#305
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Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted: Saturday, February 11, 2017 - 11:07 AM GMT+7
Joel love the progress looking really good. Would a quick dip in hot water soften the plastic sufficiently to let you bend it without snapping it? I often use a heat gun to soften plastic to let me bend it without breaking it. Would a judicious application of heat work here?
Joel_W
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New York, United States
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Posted: Saturday, February 11, 2017 - 11:11 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Joel love the progress looking really good. Would a quick dip in hot water soften the plastic sufficiently to let you bend it without snapping it? I often use a heat gun to soften plastic to let me bend it without breaking it. Would a judicious application of heat work here?



Chris,

I never gave that a thought. maybe a really hot towel directly from almost boiling water. Just don't want to take the chance of warping the horizontal Stabilizer.

Joel
c4willy
#305
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Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted: Saturday, February 11, 2017 - 12:53 PM GMT+7
Agreed Joel it's a matter of applying just enough heat so better to start at a low temp and work your way up. But I think heat is your best option in terms of moving the stabiliser without breaking it. I've also heard that terpineol will dissolve the cement bond that may also perhaps work to your advantage. It will also possibly attack the plastic as well so again care would be needed.
GazzaS
#424
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: April 23, 2015
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Posted: Saturday, February 11, 2017 - 05:40 PM GMT+7
Joel,
Wow, it almost seems a shame to paint that cowling. I'm glad to see the wings on. I'm surprised at how they made the wing joints.

I'm a novice at using bondo type fillers. I've done everything from too much hardener so that it sets up before I can use it all or too little hardener where it never seems to harden.

Your results certainly look encouraging.

Gaz
Joel_W
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New York, United States
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Posted: Sunday, February 12, 2017 - 05:09 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Agreed Joel it's a matter of applying just enough heat so better to start at a low temp and work your way up. But I think heat is your best option in terms of moving the stabiliser without breaking it. I've also heard that terpineol will dissolve the cement bond that may also perhaps work to your advantage. It will also possibly attack the plastic as well so again care would be needed.



Chris,
I tried once again the heat method and got it to budge a tad. At this point it's almost impossible to see the off angle unless you're looking directly from the tail to the nose. So I'm going to leave it as is now, and concentrate on the other host of issues I keep on finding. Amazing what a coat of primer will show up.

Joel
Joel_W
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Posted: Sunday, February 12, 2017 - 05:14 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Joel,
Wow, it almost seems a shame to paint that cowling. I'm glad to see the wings on. I'm surprised at how they made the wing joints.

I'm a novice at using bondo type fillers. I've done everything from too much hardener so that it sets up before I can use it all or too little hardener where it never seems to harden.

Gary,
I'm just guessing, but it seems to me that the easiest joint method for a mid wing design is the butt method. I'm sure that if they were designing it today, they'd use a butt with a hooking tongue.

As for the Bondo, what I use is called Bondo Glazing and Spot Putty. It comes in a single tube. No mixing. It's fool proof so even I can't screw it up.

As for the engine cowl, I was really thinking of leaving a panel or two clear. But in the end I just decided that I didn't want to go that route unless I further detailed the engine, which I really don't want to do.

Joel

Your results certainly look encouraging.

Gaz

Joel_W
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New York, United States
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Posted: Friday, February 17, 2017 - 11:33 AM GMT+7
Update:Primer 101

With the basic construction now completed, it's time to move into the next phase of the build; Priming. I've tried pre-shading, and honestly I just don't like the general overall effect I would get of a checkerboard pattern using the panel lines to form the checkerboard. Real aircraft just don't weather that way. So then I tried post shading both with a panel line wash which I now could control how dark, how light, and even what colors I would use, as well as adding various modulated tones of the base colors. I much prefered this method. Then Black Basing came along.

The premise of Black Basing was to give the basic color modulation a completely varied look, which it certainly does. But the colors do darken up, which at times is a concern to me, especially when I'm air brushing on light colors, or I want to feature bleaching, and fading effects from the tropical sun, and salt air. So I've been experimentating with what's called White Basing.

White Basing is just using in my case Gray primer, and then blotches of White to simulate the random bleaching/fading of the basic colors.

The 1st step was to prime the F4F-3 with Mig Ammo Acrylic Gray primer that I thin 1:1 with Tamiya X20-A thinner. When dry I polished it out with a #4,000 Micro Mesh pad.







Then I apply random blotches of Tamiy XF-2 Flat White thinned 1 part paint to 2 parts Yellow Cap larger then the general small squiggly lines associated with Black Basing.





Over the next few days, I'll air brush on the basic colors with very light well thinned paint.

Joel
rdt1953
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New Jersey, United States
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Posted: Friday, February 17, 2017 - 11:52 AM GMT+7
Joel -

Watching this with great interest - may have to try it myself .

Cheers and Happy Friday Night. ! Richard
Scrodes
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Friday, February 17, 2017 - 03:32 PM GMT+7
I still can't figure out why Trumpeter thinks we want clear cowlings. It's not like their engines are real prizes.



The Canadian issue of the Tamiya 32nd scale Corsair comes with a clear cowling too for some reason. I cannot imagine a tasteful way to utilize a clear cowling.



Oh - the Tamiya Corsair is my next project and build thread (it's already started). With the Brassin cockpit.
Venko555
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Bulgaria
Joined: December 07, 2013
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Posted: Friday, February 17, 2017 - 05:42 PM GMT+7
Joel, coming along very nice!

Black/Grey/White basing is much better technique than preshading IMHO

Is that Mig One shot primer (Badger)?

Regards,


berndm
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Niedersachsen, Germany
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Posted: Friday, February 17, 2017 - 06:47 PM GMT+7
Hello Joel its great to see that your F4F has entered the painting stage and a well applied primer / shading is a good start.
The large surfaces could need some effects.

Getting shading effects look good ( to the own eye ) takes some time. My first attepts were almost completely deleted with overspraying.
Now i prime my builds in a dark color and then spraying the camo paints carefully on. Works quite good.

Keep up the good work on your lovely Wildcat.
Bernd
Holdfast
Staff MemberPresident
IPMS-UK KITMAKER BRANCH
#056
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England - South West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Friday, February 17, 2017 - 07:36 PM GMT+7
Looking good Joel

I just don't get "Black Basing" because to make the effect of the grey squiggles work at all then the paint must be applied very thinly and doing so allows the black to show through, so just darkening any paint!

Grey primer with white motelling may be better but I think that the contrast between the grey and white might not be great enough and that you won't be able to see the white lightening any of the camo colours without the grey muddying them as well. Unless that is what you are aiming for? I'm intrigued to see the results

I use something that I call "White basing pre-shading post shaded" White primer, which allows you to show fading where you want by using very well thinned paint. I pre-shade, along panel lines in a complimentary but darker colour to the camo colours, and different to each colour for multi coloured camo. This just gives a different contrast over the air frame. My friend Ralph Riese was, I believe, the first to do the squiggle thing (ala black basing) where he would use the camo colours but lightened, over the actual colours and then blend them in. Now that works very much better than black basing (IMHO).

Like I say I wait with bated breath to see the outcome. My only reservation is that it looks like you intend to fade the underside which wouldn't fade as it is protected from the elements to quite a degree?
BlackWidow
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Baden-Württemberg, Germany
Joined: August 09, 2009
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Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 08:48 AM GMT+7
Hey Joel, that looks nice! Leave the camo that way it is now, put red stars on fuselage and wings and you'll have a Lend-Lease Wildcat in winter camo flying on the Eastern Front for the VVS ....

Anyway it's an interesting technic, though it's not useful for my models as they are factory fresh. For me it's also primer time tomorrow on my Peshka, finally after already working 4 weeks on it.

Torsten
GazzaS
#424
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: April 23, 2015
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Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 08:55 AM GMT+7
Hi Joel,

Watching to see how this goes since all of your previous finishes have been outstanding.

Got to admit that I do like the look of it as-is. Very night fighter-ish.

Gaz
BlackWidow
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Baden-Württemberg, Germany
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Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 09:09 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

.... Very night fighter-ish.

Gaz



Yes indeed!
Joel, if this is not enough reason to build a german night fighter, what argument do you need more?
Joel_W
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New York, United States
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Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 09:12 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Joel -

Watching this with great interest - may have to try it myself .

Cheers and Happy Friday Night. ! Richard



Richard, you're not the only one watching this with great interest to see how it actually turns out. Like I said, this is the 1st full experiment with White Basing. To say I'm kind of nervous about it, is putting it mildly.

Joel
Joel_W
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New York, United States
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Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 09:16 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

I still can't figure out why Trumpeter thinks we want clear cowlings. It's not like their engines are real prizes.



The Canadian issue of the Tamiya 32nd scale Corsair comes with a clear cowling too for some reason. I cannot imagine a tasteful way to utilize a clear cowling.



Oh - the Tamiya Corsair is my next project and build thread (it's already started). With the Brassin cockpit.



Matt,
Same here. The clear cowl with this kit level of detail clearly makes no sense to me either. Fortunately, a coat of primer took care of that issue.

Which Corsair are you going to be building as I have both: the -1 and the -1A. both are just fantastic kits. I bought the MRP lacquer paints for all my interior colors especially Salmon. That's one tough color to try and duplicate.

Joel
Joel_W
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New York, United States
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Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 09:19 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Joel, coming along very nice!

Black/Grey/White basing is much better technique than preshading IMHO

Is that Mig One shot primer (Badger)?

Regards,



Venelin,

As I've said, I'm not a big fan of pre-shading either. I really think that Black and or White basing is the logical next step, but not the end all either. I still intend to do some post shading as needed.

The primers that I use are Mig Ammo Acrylic primers, not the Badger ones.

Joel
Joel_W
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New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
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Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 09:22 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Hello Joel its great to see that your F4F has entered the painting stage and a well applied primer / shading is a good start.
The large surfaces could need some effects.

Getting shading effects look good ( to the own eye ) takes some time. My first attepts were almost completely deleted with overspraying.
Now i prime my builds in a dark color and then spraying the camo paints carefully on. Works quite good.

Keep up the good work on your lovely Wildcat.
Bernd



Bernd,
I've only used the black basing technique up until now. The Mossie started with Black Basing. the issue I had is the colors ended up darker then I wanted them to be. So this time I'm trying the reverse as Fading, bleaching is where I want to be as a starting point.
Joel_W
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New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 7,763 posts
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Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 09:37 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Looking good Joel

I just don't get "Black Basing" because to make the effect of the grey squiggles work at all then the paint must be applied very thinly and doing so allows the black to show through, so just darkening any paint!

Grey primer with white motelling may be better but I think that the contrast between the grey and white might not be great enough and that you won't be able to see the white lightening any of the camo colours without the grey muddying them as well. Unless that is what you are aiming for? I'm intrigued to see the results

I use something that I call "White basing pre-shading post shaded" White primer, which allows you to show fading where you want by using very well thinned paint. I pre-shade, along panel lines in a complimentary but darker colour to the camo colours, and different to each colour for multi coloured camo. This just gives a different contrast over the air frame. My friend Ralph Riese was, I believe, the first to do the squiggle thing (ala black basing) where he would use the camo colours but lightened, over the actual colours and then blend them in. Now that works very much better than black basing (IMHO).

Like I say I wait with bated breath to see the outcome. My only reservation is that it looks like you intend to fade the underside which wouldn't fade as it is protected from the elements to quite a degree?



Mal,
Thanks so much for stopping by, and discussing the black and white basing techniques, as I really appreciate your input.

The original concept of off white squiggles was to randomly create the effect of paint fading. I never really cared for that application, I've used larger and larger splotches to accomplish that to what I feel has been a more realistic look.

The underside blotches with more coats of paint hopefully will only add a lesser degree of fading. Once sealed, I'm planning on a blackish Sludge wash to add a darkening/streaking effect of grease, oil, dirt, etc. The top color should show the effect some what better. I'm also planning on doing some post shading as well.

A lot of this is going to be trial and error as it's the only way to see if these new concepts will actually work.

Joel
Joel_W
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New York, United States
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Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 09:40 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Hey Joel, that looks nice! Leave the camo that way it is now, put red stars on fuselage and wings and you'll have a Lend-Lease Wildcat in winter camo flying on the Eastern Front for the VVS ....

Anyway it's an interesting technic, though it's not useful for my models as they are factory fresh. For me it's also primer time tomorrow on my Peshka, finally after already working 4 weeks on it.

Torsten



Torsten,
Now that's a great idea

Looking forward to seeing your Peshka when she's finally out the hanger door.

Joel