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World War II
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
1/32 Trumpeter F4F-3 Grumman Wildcat Build
Joel_W
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New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
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Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 09:43 AM GMT+7

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Hi Joel,

Watching to see how this goes since all of your previous finishes have been outstanding.

Got to admit that I do like the look of it as-is. Very night fighter-ish.

Gaz



Gary,
Another great idea my friend. It does indeed have that certain night fighter look to it like the He219 Owl.

I've got to agree that my painting has finally been getting better. I'm at the point where I'm so unhappy with the overall paint job on my PV-1 that I'm going to be buying a 2nd set of masks/decals and repaint it.

Joel
Joel_W
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New York, United States
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Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 09:44 AM GMT+7

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.... Very night fighter-ish.

Gaz



Yes indeed!
Joel, if this is not enough reason to build a german night fighter, what argument do you need more?



Torsten,
I've never build anything but Allied aircraft since I returned to the hobby. I guess the time is coming to finally branch out.

Joel
Joel_W
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New York, United States
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Posted: Monday, February 20, 2017 - 07:36 AM GMT+7
With the Football season over with, the baseball pre-season just starting, and the Daytona 500 next weekend, I had a full weekend to just model, well sort of. Some medical issues came up, but by Saturday afternoon we're all back home from the hospital, so I had some time to model.

Rather, I should have said paint now that the great white basing experiment was under way.

I started off with the bottom of the F4F-3 by painting it with a custom mix of Tamiya paints to represent Medium Gray which corresponds to FS36440,ANA 620. For the mix I used Tamiya SKY GREY XF19 2 parts to 1 part Tamiya XF-2 FLAT WHITE, then thinned it with Yellow cap at a 2:3 ratio Air brushed @ a flow rate of 16 psi.

The results were super smooth, but the white basing almost all but disappeared. Exactly the effect I was hoping for, as the bottom will show the effects of dirt, oil, grease, & sand/dirt, not so much fading do to the elements.





Sunday I masked the demarcation lines with Silly Putty, then proceeded to mix the Non-Specular Blue-Grey which closes matches FS35189. For that I used Tamiya XF-18 MEDIUM BLUE 3 parts to 1 part Tamiya Flat White XF2, and then also cut it with Yellow cap @ 2:3, with a flow rate of 16 psi.

the results were sort of mixed. While the White Basing worked ok, the blotches were generally to large and unrealistic in appearance (my screw up), so I applied another few light coats, and now the results look much better, but still I need to do some post shading with lighter and darker tones for the effect I'm looking for. Washes will come after the decals are sealed.







You'll also notice that unlike any American WW11 Naval aircraft of the two tone period: 1941-1942, the Neutral Gray wraps around the cowl front. I'm assuming that's just something that VMF 211 did. So I went looking through my research material, and I found one photograph that was actually taken by the Japanese the day after the Wake Island battle. You can clearly see the cowl in the 4th aircraft back with the Gray encompassing the cowl lip.



This is the 11th plane from the 12 planes of VMF stationed on Wake. I'm either going to model it, or F-1, the commanders aircraft. The 12 other planes of VMF 211 were stationed at Ewa, Territory of Hawaii.

Joel






GazzaS
#424
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Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Monday, February 20, 2017 - 01:44 PM GMT+7
Joel,
I'm glad you had a full weekend to model. As usual, your painting experiments add great visual interest to your models. I think I'm going to give white basing a go in the near future.

Really looking forward to seeing how this all looks when the weathering happens.

'sgonna be great.

Gaz
Joel_W
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New York, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 - 04:51 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Joel,
I'm glad you had a full weekend to model. As usual, your painting experiments add great visual interest to your models. I think I'm going to give white basing a go in the near future.

Really looking forward to seeing how this all looks when the weathering happens.

'sgonna be great.

Gaz



Gary,
Thanks for the words of encouragement, I can really use it with this feeling my way through the whole process.

After looking at the pictures again, and the actual model this morning, the white basing does look pretty good. It does need more various color tones which I'll most likely do tomorrow. Then seal in Glosscoat, which for me is a light tack coat, a min of two wet coats, then when dry to the touch, a really thin coat 20%:80% applied also wet that will really level out the Glosscoat so it's shiny and smooth.

Joel
rdt1953
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New Jersey, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 - 05:38 AM GMT+7
Joel - Another one of your great finishes is well along I see - well done - I'm envious as I am dealing with the consequences of my first use of Vallejo primer and my incredibly bad decision to not try a test sample first - feel free to vote for me in the next " Who's the Jackass ? " poll.

Richard
Joel_W
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New York, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 - 05:52 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Joel - Another one of your great finishes is well along I see - well done - I'm envious as I am dealing with the consequences of my first use of Vallejo primer and my incredibly bad decision to not try a test sample first - feel free to vote for me in the next " Who's the Jackass ? " poll.

Richard



Richard,
Thanks for the vote of confidence. but lets see just how well the finished product looks.

What happened with the Vallejo primer? I only use two primers: Tamiya gray primer sealer, and Mig Ammo Black, or Gray (they have other colors as well). the Mig Ammo primer is cut with Tamiya X20-A @ 1:1 and shoot beautifully at 16 psi. the Tamiya primer being a lacquer based primer I cut with Tamiya Yellow Cap lacquer 1:1 and also shot at 16 psi. These days the Tamiya primer is just used as a filler.

Joel
Scrodes
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 - 06:02 AM GMT+7
The amount of work you're putting into this kit is inspiring. I just don't know if I will ever get around to building mine. I want a 32nd scale F4F, but there are so many other kits to build first... (You know, because they fit well, or I'm more interested in the subject matter.)


I will have to cave and build their Hellcat though. I might even mash the Hasegawa fuselage into it to correct the shape. I don't want a wonky looking Grumman.


I still can't believe no one has released a newer kit of the F4F or F6F, there seems to be a strong demand - especially for the latter.


Le sigh.


After my Tamiya Corsair, I'm going to build my HPH 32nd scale Helldiver... There goes my modelling year.
Joel_W
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New York, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 - 06:57 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

The amount of work you're putting into this kit is inspiring. I just don't know if I will ever get around to building mine. I want a 32nd scale F4F, but there are so many other kits to build first... (You know, because they fit well, or I'm more interested in the subject matter.)


I will have to cave and build their Hellcat though. I might even mash the Hasegawa fuselage into it to correct the shape. I don't want a wonky looking Grumman.


I still can't believe no one has released a newer kit of the F4F or F6F, there seems to be a strong demand - especially for the latter.


Le sigh.


After my Tamiya Corsair, I'm going to build my HPH 32nd scale Helldiver... There goes my modelling year.



Matt,
Like I've said in the past, I grew up maybe by bike 20 min from Grumman's main gage in Bethpage New York, and a 45 min bike trip in the other direction brought my brother and I to the fences of Republic. Not bad for two kids back in the 60's . So both marks are always kind of special to me.

For some strange reason I took a greater liking to the Wildcat then the Hellcat, go figure. That's my only reason for my 2nd 1/32 build to go with the Trumpeter offering. I picked the -3 over the more popular -4 because it has the re-molded fuselage. the -4 is way off. My 1st thought was to buy both kits when it came time to build a -4, but after the adventures of the -3, that's just not going to happen in my remaining modeling years.

Now the F6F-3 and -5 are both on my must have to build list, (which just keeps on getting longer and longer). The Hasegawa kits are old, too old with raised panel lines, so so engines, and the cockpit leaves a lot to be desired. the over all shape has it issues. So I'm planning on both from Trumpeter even though there are some shape issues as well.

Like you said, why someone doesn't come out with a new F6F is beyond me. It would be a excellent seller. Come on Papa Tamiya, give this old timer the gift of a life time.

I'm really looking forward to your Tamiya F4U-1 Birdcage build, as I'm sure you're going to be pulling out all the stops. But the highlight of your modeling year will be the Helldiver. I've almost bought it a few times, but I've never built a resin kit, so I keep on skipping over it.

Joel
rdt1953
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New Jersey, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 - 08:45 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Joel - Another one of your great finishes is well along I see - well done - I'm envious as I am dealing with the consequences of my first use of Vallejo primer and my incredibly bad decision to not try a test sample first - feel free to vote for me in the next " Who's the Jackass ? " poll.

Richard



Richard,
Thanks for the vote of confidence. but lets see just how well the finished product looks.

What happened with the Vallejo primer? I only use two primers: Tamiya gray primer sealer, and Mig Ammo Black, or Gray (they have other colors as well). the Mig Ammo primer is cut with Tamiya X20-A @ 1:1 and shoot beautifully at 16 psi. the Tamiya primer being a lacquer based primer I cut with Tamiya Yellow Cap lacquer 1:1 and also shot at 16 psi. These days the Tamiya primer is just used as a filler.

Joel


Joel - I will detail what I did and didn't do in my blog so I don't clutter up yours -
Basically two problems - poor adhesion and largely it can not be sanded .
Crying in my beer Richard
Joel_W
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New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
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Posted: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 - 08:55 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Joel - Another one of your great finishes is well along I see - well done - I'm envious as I am dealing with the consequences of my first use of Vallejo primer and my incredibly bad decision to not try a test sample first - feel free to vote for me in the next " Who's the Jackass ? " poll.

Richard



Richard,
Thanks for the vote of confidence. but lets see just how well the finished product looks.

What happened with the Vallejo primer? I only use two primers: Tamiya gray primer sealer, and Mig Ammo Black, or Gray (they have other colors as well). the Mig Ammo primer is cut with Tamiya X20-A @ 1:1 and shoot beautifully at 16 psi. the Tamiya primer being a lacquer based primer I cut with Tamiya Yellow Cap lacquer 1:1 and also shot at 16 psi. These days the Tamiya primer is just used as a filler.

Joel


Joel - I will detail what I did and didn't do in my blog so I don't clutter up yours -
Basically two problems - poor adhesion and largely it can not be sanded .
Crying in my beer Richard



Richard,
I tried Vallejo paints and primers, as well Model Master Acrylics, and I had issues with poor adhesion of paint to plastic, paint to primer wasn't so bad, but both primers just didn't stick to the super cleaned plastic. hence, I don't use either brand for anything.

To remove the Vallejo paint try Denatured Alcohol from a hardware store. It removes acrylic paint like water does with watercolors.

Joel
thegirl
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Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 - 12:27 PM GMT+7
Joel , I much prefer the white basing over the black . I seen this is becoming to be the norm and one others are following . It doesn't look right once the camo is laid down making it look dark . Now if one is doing NMF alright then .

I think you experimentation with the white base really paid of for you and once you do your weathering it will all blend in wonderfully .



Terri
Joel_W
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New York, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 - 12:59 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Joel , I much prefer the white basing over the black . I seen this is becoming to be the norm and one others are following . It doesn't look right once the camo is laid down making it look dark . Now if one is doing NMF alright then .

I think you experimentation with the white base really paid of for you and once you do your weathering it will all blend in wonderfully .



Terri



Terri,
Thanks for your input, it's greatly appreciated, and how right you are.

For my Mossie build, I used the Black Basing method, and the colors were darker then what I was used to. With this build, darker is the exact opposite of what I'm trying to achieve, hence, the White Basing technique as I dubbed it.

Most builds I tend to use a black Flory Sludge wash, but it's just not the right way to go this time. I'm thinking of a darkish gray mix for the majority of panel lines, and highlighting the rivets with the same wash only along the rivet lines, then removing most of that wash to simulate dirt and grime build up around the rivets.

The bottom of the Wildcat will be treated differently to created the illusion of grease, oil, general grime, and good of earth from Wake Island.

Finally, a earth mist overcoat to blend everything together especially the decals which are naturally shiny and looks like brand new paint.

Ok, that's the plan, now lets see how well I can pull it off.

I'm going to restrict the use of the Black Primer to cockpits, wheel wells, and confined areas to help with color modulation.

Joel
KelticKnot
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Scotland, United Kingdom
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Posted: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 - 04:42 AM GMT+7
Joel, your white basing experiment has worked out well in my opinion.
You've achieved a great sun bleached look already. Have you given thought to your markings yet as you'll not want them to be saturated with colour.
Scrodes
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 - 06:46 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Helldiver. I've almost bought it a few times, but I've never built a resin kit, so I keep on skipping over it.

Joel



You must not! It has the finest detail I have ever seen! It is truly worth every cent. It will build up as easily as Trumpeter kits (I honestly believe this) aside from all the work to get the six million parts off of their casting blocks.
Joel_W
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New York, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 - 06:48 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Joel, your white basing experiment has worked out well in my opinion.
You've achieved a great sun bleached look already. Have you given thought to your markings yet as you'll not want them to be saturated with colour.



Paul,
thanks for stopping by and having a look at my progress to date. And yes, the Great White basing experiment seems to have worked. Took a full days drying for the full effect to show up. one issue I do have is that I need a much better photo lighting setup as my lights seem to wash out a lot of the close tonal separation.

As for the decals as I said, they will look brand spanking new and thus completely out of place. My plan is once the decals are completely sealed in Glosscoat, a few mist coats of Tamiya Earth will knock down the newness look, and a quick coat over the Wildcat will tone down and blend everything together. That's the plan. Now I have to hope it works.

Joel
Joel_W
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New York, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 - 06:52 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Helldiver. I've almost bought it a few times, but I've never built a resin kit, so I keep on skipping over it.

Joel



You must not! It has the finest detail I have ever seen! It is truly worth every cent. It will build up as easily as Trumpeter kits (I honestly believe this) aside from all the work to get the six million parts off of their casting blocks.



Matt,
That's one problem. I already struggle with seats. I'm also really concerned that it being resin, I'll have issues gluing the parts together without making a mess with the CCA glue.

Joel
berndm
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Niedersachsen, Germany
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Posted: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 - 08:02 PM GMT+7
Hello Joel, i hope your health has improved and i wish you a full and speedy recovering !

Your paint work is making good progress. Its the first time i have seen this camp wrap around on the cowling, an interesting feature.

Well done so far !

Bernd
Joel_W
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New York, United States
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Posted: Thursday, February 23, 2017 - 06:26 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Hello Joel, i hope your health has improved and i wish you a full and speedy recovering !

Your paint work is making good progress. Its the first time i have seen this camp wrap around on the cowling, an interesting feature.

Well done so far !

Bernd



Bernd,
Thank you my friend for the concern over the health issues. This time it was my wife. She's holding her own but now she has her own heart problems to deal with. Getting old truly sucks.

And thanks for checking out the latest Update. I'm finally starting to feel like I've getting somewhat closer to the finish line.

Joel
Joel_W
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Posted: Saturday, February 25, 2017 - 04:22 AM GMT+7
Bernd brought up a good point that the gray surround on the cowl ring is certainly unconventional, and rare. I've never seen it as well. So I went looking for an answer.

There were 12 F4F-3 from VMG 211 assigned to Wake Island prior to the start of the war. On Nov 28,1941 11 of the 12 aircraft flew out to the USS Enterprise for the trip to Wake. The 12th aircraft had starter problems and didn't make the trip. All USN aircraft were still painted in the single mid tone Gray scheme.

While onboard the repaint orders were received to apply the new two tone standard colors. Since the single tone Gray was so close to the two tone Gray, and that the trip only would take 6 days, it was decided to only apply the Non-Specular Blue-Gray M-585/FS36118. Since the props were all on, and the time needed to remove them and reinstall them, they were left them on. Tarps were used to cover the props that were tied to the cowl. Hence, the cowl rings were also left in the Med Gray, and no two aircraft were exactly alike.

This also meant that the 2nd half of VMF-211 stationed at Hawaii had the regular two tone paint scheme applied, so that the squadron aircraft didn't match. That became a mood point after all 11 aircraft were lost or captured on Wake Island.

Joel