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Armor/AFV: What If?
For those who like to build hypothetical or alternate history versions of armor/AFVs.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Kpz.70 MBT Modernized
ColinEdm
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: October 15, 2013
KitMaker: 1,276 posts
AeroScale: 82 posts
Posted: Monday, June 05, 2017 - 05:55 PM UTC
Tbh, I had forgotten about the cameras, I don't think they were ever installed on the kPz, but I could be wrong, I may still add one or two though.
BootsDMS
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England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 727 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 04, 2017 - 04:35 PM UTC
'Love all this - but will the Driver still need some sort of camera (presumably on the glacis?) in order for him to drive the beast?

You may recall that the original concept was to have just such a method.

Keep up the good work.

Brian
ColinEdm
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: October 15, 2013
KitMaker: 1,276 posts
AeroScale: 82 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 04, 2017 - 07:35 AM UTC
Pretty much have the lower hull done with skirts and ERA. Added some 'rubber' mudguards on the front fenders made with the foil from the top of a wine bottle (I've told my wife again and again wine has multiple benefits!).




With slat armour taped on, working on the rear section now.

And put a coat of primer on to check for little fixes needed:




I salvaged the mounts for the travel rest and remounted it slightly lower down on the front glacis to account for the ERA thickness.

A little longer between updates right now as we are taking care of my 3 year old nephew, it's been a long time since we've had to deal with such a bundle of energy!
ColinEdm
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: October 15, 2013
KitMaker: 1,276 posts
AeroScale: 82 posts
Posted: Monday, May 22, 2017 - 09:02 AM UTC
Got the tracks mounted, I shortened them up by a couple of links but looks like I could have lost one or two more, oh well, will be covered by the skirts anyway.


Rear view:

Added headlights, modified a bit and with new conduit from brass rod.

Hatches on turret and slowly adding the details. The drivers capsule looks like it is not oriented properly, but I added some clips so that it can rotate, this way the turret can by rotated to a desired display position other than pointing straight ahead and the drivers capsule can be oriented accordingly.


Cheers
ColinEdm
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: October 15, 2013
KitMaker: 1,276 posts
AeroScale: 82 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 09:11 AM UTC
Thanks for the kind words guys. Things have slowed down a bit as we are taking care of my 3 year old nephew for a while, he is pretty high energy and the wife and I aren't used to used to keeping up with him lol, most days he doesn't even take a nap but we sure need one! Anyway, I managed to finish cleaning up the track links and assembled the tracks. Tried out a new painting process with them, starting out airbrushing a base coat of Tamiya Red Brown with a bit of black mixed in. Then I proceeded to spatter on various rust coloured layers, dark to light to get a varied finish.


Then painted in the worn areas with oily steel and the pads (roughened up with 40 grit sandpaper to show wear) with black grey.


A bit of touchup yet to do. Also worked on the suspension and running gear. I used a combination of hairspray and sponge chipping to get a nice level of wear indicative of a rather hastily sprayed desert camo on a vehicle that has spent a lot of time in the sandbox.


some overall and pin washes, grease stains and I can assmble the running gear and mount the skirts.
crossracer
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Delaware, United States
Joined: April 26, 2005
KitMaker: 117 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 - 05:21 PM UTC
All I can say is with most what if subjects, if it looks right it probably would be right. Excellent work and your level of perfection in trying to get the slat armor right proof that your what if probably would have looked a lot like this.

Great job 👇👍
ColinEdm
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: October 15, 2013
KitMaker: 1,276 posts
AeroScale: 82 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 30, 2017 - 09:26 AM UTC
After checking reference pics again I made some adjustments to the slat armour position:

I am rejigging the front of the ERA bricks as well. Added some mud flaps to the rear of the hull (credit to Tom Cromwell on how to make these!):

Received the paints this week:

And started on the tracks, still quite a few to go...

I have to get these done and installed so I can fix the skirts in place and finish off the rear slat armour. Started painting the wheels are undercarriage. Started off with Tamiya Xf-59 Olive Green with a bit of black added to darken it up. this will act as a base for my chipping as the paint scheme is a desert pattern applied over the base green. Followed this up with some hairspray and then the base German Sand Beige.



Probably no update next weekend as I will be out of town.
hugohuertas
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Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: January 26, 2007
KitMaker: 1,024 posts
AeroScale: 6 posts
Posted: Monday, April 24, 2017 - 02:31 AM UTC
You went really crazy on this one!
LOL
Keep going!!!
ColinEdm
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: October 15, 2013
KitMaker: 1,276 posts
AeroScale: 82 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 23, 2017 - 08:57 AM UTC
Well, Easter weekend, house guests, some illness and hockey playoffs (Go Oilers!) have conspired to slow down progress over the last couple weeks. I have been working on the side skirts and reactive armour. I am trying to use the add on ERA from the Bradley resin ERA kit my client provided. both sides were warped but soaking in some hot water followed by a press under a few of my sons 1000+ page textbooks solved that! I trimmed them down to the proper length and fitted them to the skirts. The weight tends to pull the skirts down so I added some braces from the hull above the suspension. It looks all right I guess, but I'm not completely happy with it. Lining up the slat armour with it leaves the slat armour sitting lower than I had planned. I am thinking I may have to custom build the ERA blocks to fit the skirts better. Thoughts?



ColinEdm
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: October 15, 2013
KitMaker: 1,276 posts
AeroScale: 82 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 09, 2017 - 08:41 AM UTC
Not much of an update this week, took a break to work on my 21cm Morser, but did do a little bit. Finished off the slat armour for the other side of the hull:

Now I just have to do the rear module and I can move on! Whew! Started working on the brackets to hang the slat armour off the skirts:

Cheers
ColinEdm
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: October 15, 2013
KitMaker: 1,276 posts
AeroScale: 82 posts
Posted: Monday, April 03, 2017 - 07:34 AM UTC
Thanks guys! The gun will be the 120mm L44.
edklingon
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Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Joined: October 11, 2010
KitMaker: 193 posts
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Posted: Monday, April 03, 2017 - 01:13 AM UTC
What a impressive convertion!
barkingdigger
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
#013
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,611 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, April 03, 2017 - 12:57 AM UTC
Wow - I'm lovin' it! That slat armour really brings it up to date. Remind me about the main gun choice again?

ColinEdm
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: October 15, 2013
KitMaker: 1,276 posts
AeroScale: 82 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 02, 2017 - 08:52 AM UTC
I wasn't totally happy with my first attempt at slat armour, had some interference between the mounting bracket and the smoke dischargers, plus looking at reference pics there were more vertical slats and it went around the rear of the turret, so I tried extending it and adding more vertical elements, but it didn't work out as well as I hoped:

I just wasn't happy with how it turned out so I tried another method and gave up on that too...

Third times a charm! Much happier with how this turned out, just need to add some support brackets off the storage bins.


And I worked on the hull side slat armour:


The skirts forward to the slat armour will have ERA like the Chally ref pic I posted previously. All tacked/taped on temporarily.
GTDeath13
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Attica, Greece / Ελλάδα
Joined: June 12, 2015
KitMaker: 822 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 25, 2017 - 10:39 PM UTC
Outstanding work!!! It is turning out as a very impressive model.

Great craftmanship in this build.
ColinEdm
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: October 15, 2013
KitMaker: 1,276 posts
AeroScale: 82 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 25, 2017 - 09:55 PM UTC
Early update today, working on the smoke dischargers, adding the tiny chains from my PE stock.

And I have been inspired by this photo of a Challenger with a combination of reactive and slat armour to add some slat armour of the rear of the turret and hull:

So off I go with a rudimentary jig:

and surprisingly quickly I have two sets for either side of the turrt:

Now mounting brackets:

I mounted the smoke discharger brackets to make sure there is no interference and added some mounting pads for the slat armour brackets:

Slat armour up!

Making sure it clears the rear engine deck - just barely! May have to take the bottom slat off.


The slat panels are just friction fitted to the brackets, I will leave them off for painting. Need some panels for the rear and then will start on the hull.
Cheers
ColinEdm
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: October 15, 2013
KitMaker: 1,276 posts
AeroScale: 82 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 19, 2017 - 08:59 AM UTC
Thanks Ian! I am having a lot of fun with this and letting my imagination go a bit. I can see how this kit would be quite frustrating for someone who wants to build an accurate model, and there are some questionable shortcuts Dragon made as well, but as you say, with a what-if build you can hide a lot of the warts! I am curious as to how it will all turn out in the end...
SaxonTheShiba
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United States
Joined: February 01, 2009
KitMaker: 1,228 posts
AeroScale: 660 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 19, 2017 - 04:17 AM UTC
Colin, your work on this project is simply amazing. Despite the angst Black Label kits seem to generate, I have thought they would make good platforms for hypothetical subjects. Problem areas can simply be modded out, covered with reactive or add-on armor, or covered with mud and stowage from conflicts they never fought in. This is great work and thanks for sharing. I will be looking forward to the completed project.

Best wishes,

Ian
ColinEdm
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Alberta, Canada
Joined: October 15, 2013
KitMaker: 1,276 posts
AeroScale: 82 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 19, 2017 - 02:54 AM UTC
Sunday update time! Decided to do some correction work on the rear engine panel. Compared to the Munster KPz, the kit has too few louvers on the rear panel, 6 vs 11. originally I wasn't going to bother with fixing it, but as I have progressed on this I have become more obsessed with it, so I decided to have a go at fixing it. A bit of advice though, it would be much easier to do BEFORE you attach to the main hull! I started off by scraping the louvers thinner to make them more too scale and to make room fro the additional louvers I will slide in between them. The new louvers are 0.3mm x 2.0mm styrene strip. Here you can see how it looks compared to the kit louvers.

All done, before a shot of primer, still needs a bit of cleanup:

Primed up, looks better to me!

Next up are the exhaust covers. Again looking at reference pics, the hinges at the top are modelled too big on the kit, they should sit flush with the louvers:

The outer lip around the cover should also be flat, so I carved that and the hinge off, and made new hinges out of sheet styrene and some brass tube I had lying around.

Now they sit right:

The infantry telephone box is next, it looks too big when checking reference pics, but first, some more turret work. I started adding anti-slip to the top of the storage boxes I made:

then I masked off the main turret and started applying it there as well. It is just Tamiya putty thinned with a bit of lacquer thinnner stippled on with an old brush.


Pull the masking off and:

Circular bit without texture is where the RWS will be.
I decided to put an Ultra-Cap over the recessed section where the autocannon barred used to be stowed, new electronics in the turret! So I sanded off the anti-slip and made a cap out of sheet styrene. Using my handy punch and die set, I made small circular masks for the bolts and then textured it.

Then I used some HO scale nuts I picked up from a local LHS that was closing down, $2 for a pack of 175 of them, great for this!

I trimmed them all to the same length and inserted through holes drilled in the plate:

No having to line up bolts and rods! Mounted on the turret:

Just need to add a pressure relief cap to it now.
ColinEdm
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Alberta, Canada
Joined: October 15, 2013
KitMaker: 1,276 posts
AeroScale: 82 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 12, 2017 - 08:36 AM UTC
Finished off the storage bins and AC unit then added a shot of primer, a bit of cleanup is required. Just blue-tac'd in place right now so hanging loose. I have to gin up some mounting brackets and supports.




Cheers
ColinEdm
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Alberta, Canada
Joined: October 15, 2013
KitMaker: 1,276 posts
AeroScale: 82 posts
Posted: Monday, March 06, 2017 - 08:37 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Loaders Hatch? Auto loader?



Auto loader as per the original.
Cheers
salt6
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Oklahoma, United States
Joined: February 17, 2002
KitMaker: 777 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, March 06, 2017 - 05:07 AM UTC
Loaders Hatch? Auto loader?
ColinEdm
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Alberta, Canada
Joined: October 15, 2013
KitMaker: 1,276 posts
AeroScale: 82 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 05, 2017 - 09:22 AM UTC
Thanks Cesar!

Just a small update this Sunday as I have admittedly been neglecting this a bit to concentrate on finishing off my Nashorn for the AFV Club Campaign which ends this month. My Leo II tracks arrived:

With the applique armour the turret lifting lugs would have to be relocated, so using a spare Leo II lug, I made some copies out of styrene strip and added them to the turret roof with stretched sprue weld beads.


have also roughed up an air conditioning unit to add to the back of the turret, still waffling on additional storage bins.


Cheers!
Mendes
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Parana, Brazil
Joined: April 19, 2012
KitMaker: 181 posts
AeroScale: 1 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 26, 2017 - 02:01 AM UTC
Graat job for now.

Cheers
ColinEdm
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Alberta, Canada
Joined: October 15, 2013
KitMaker: 1,276 posts
AeroScale: 82 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 26, 2017 - 01:36 AM UTC
Slowly making progress! Got the turret evened out, it is still a wee bit off but not as noticeable and once I add all the other bits it shouldn't show.I added brackets and Meng bolt heads for the applique armour as well.


I needed a break from all this filling, sanding and otherwise futzing about with turret armour so I decided to tackle the gunners sight. When I was visiting my parents over Christmas we decided to clear out a bunch of my Grandmothers old stuff which had been collecting dust in my parents basement for years since she passed. She was very crafty so lots of stuff for the wife, sister in law and niece to pick from, but I also found some useful items! Among the containers of sequins I found some nice large flat ones in blue, green, silver and red and thought they could come in useful. The blue and green ones are perfect for coated optics!

Trim it down and slide it in:

Shazam! Coated optics for the gunner!


I think Grandma would be happy to see her stuff being put to use, even if not in the originally intended way!
I also decided to add some anti-slip to the applique armour, and I have seen pictures where the whole armour face seems to be textured. I used Tamiya putty thinned with a bit of Tamiya enamel thinner stippled on with an old brush.

Then time to add on some grab handles. the kit has perfectly good ones....if half weren't broken. So, I made new ones out of brass rod and plastic strip.



That's it for now!

Cheers