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World War II
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
Hosted by Rowan Baylis
TBD-1 Midway Ens. George Gay
pnance26
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United States
Joined: January 22, 2016
KitMaker: 580 posts
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Posted: Thursday, March 23, 2017 - 03:14 PM GMT+7
Submitted for comment...







Your comments and criticism are always welcome!
Knuckles
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Oregon, United States
Joined: March 09, 2017
KitMaker: 525 posts
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Posted: Thursday, March 23, 2017 - 03:51 PM GMT+7
My comments: I'm not familiar with this kit, nor the aircraft. I can say that the build is awesome, and your attention to detail is superb. I'll follow and look forward to your work.
pnance26
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United States
Joined: January 22, 2016
KitMaker: 580 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, March 29, 2017 - 02:49 AM GMT+7
Have just uncovered some information regarding Ens. George Gay and his Midway experience.

Gay had a self inflating life raft that was thrown clear of the aircraft after he ditched. He spent his time bobbing around and using the dark side of his seat cushion as "camouflage". So now, an added element... need putty to roll out and create raft. Turns out the raft side is larger at one end to support that rescued person's back and has pockets etc... that will be fun.

Gay also described the cause of his "pancake" as the rudder and "ailerons" had been shot away. I am assuming he is using "aileron" to describe the surfaces on his rear stabilizers. I would appreciate any information that might help clear that up.

Gay further states that a "20mm shell" pierced the cockpit destroying the left rudder pedal and causing a burn on Gay's leg. The standard practice of the day was to wrap our pant leg around your leg and stuff it into you boot so it wouldn't flap around and get caught on anything. His left leg was burned and the pant leg was hanging in tatters.

He also said he tried to dive to rescue his gunner but was unable to do so. According to Gay, the plane pancaked, the right wing tip caught the water and the plane "broke up and sank". I am not sure how severe the damage was but I don't think I will break the fuselage.

I had planned to depict the plane nose down in the water with the fuselage at an angle of around 40 degrees with the left tip in the water and the wing damaged with the body at an angle on "Z axis". Somehow, it is more pleasing to the eye... but now, it will be the opposite. The right wing will be submerged with the left wing clear of the water and sticking up.

I would draw a picture but I have trouble drawing stick men...

I also received the Starfighter Decals "TBD-1 Devastators in War Paint" decal sheet and the markings are different than provided by GWH. The kit markings depict the aircraft identifier as "8-T-14". I am trusting that Starfighter did its research because they omit the "8". Would that be inaccurate?

In the mail as well was the instrument panel gauges decal sheet from AirScale. They look great!

Your advice and comments are always appreciated!

And
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
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Posted: Wednesday, March 29, 2017 - 05:06 AM GMT+7
Patrick,
I was doing some looking the other day-- and discovered a color photo of the life raft and survival gear in the Book Carrier Air War in Color. I'll see if I can get a scan and PM it to you.
VR, Russ.
pnance26
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United States
Joined: January 22, 2016
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Posted: Wednesday, March 29, 2017 - 05:34 AM GMT+7
Thanks, Russ! I can always count on you!

I spoke with Mark of Mark's Toy and Models. Mark is a very knowledgeable guy and he was able to answer some questions for me.

Here are a few tidbits... the missing 8-from the identifier is correct. After Coral Sea, the USN directed that the Squadron number be removed from the fuselage. All graphic depictions of the #8 going into Midway would be incorrect.

He also told me that the propeller blade tip markings were still in use at Midway. Not only that but the dark blue color at the bottom was continued to the cowl on the rear of the prop for anti-glare purposes. The front the prop blades were black and the manufacturer logo went midway down the shaft of the blade.

Mark is a really cool guy and runs a business of one. The decals are printed in Italy and he really has done his homework. He referenced John Ford's color footage of the planes shot at the time of the battle, so I guess you can't much more first hand than that!

He also agreed that Gay was probably saying the elevators on the rear stabilizers were shot away as well as the rudder. Without the elevators, the TBD-1 would have not been able to climb and thus pancaked. He agreed with me that it wasn't the ailerons but the elevators that were shot away. More detail to put into the aircraft!

While I am saying thanks, Russ (Kevlar06) also sent me the original article on doing bomb/battle damage on a B-17 that should be adaptable to any aircraft. Thanks again, Russ! You have been a great friend, resource and help since I first met you over on ArmoRama! You are a great modeler and always helpful!

These forums have always been supportive and positive without any judgment or competitive crap. It makes it a lot easier to deal with when you are frustrated or down! Thanks again to all!
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, March 29, 2017 - 09:03 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text


These forums have always been supportive and positive without any judgment or competitive crap. It makes it a lot easier to deal with when you are frustrated or down! Thanks again to all!




My pleasure Patrick. I always like to help a fellow modeler out. Fortunately I belong to a pretty good group of folks up here in the PNW who are like minded and we try and help each other out. It's better when we try to work together on things-- cooperation is always more fun than negativity. By the way, I sent some photos of the life raft to your email, the book didn't fit well in my scanner. Tillman' s Carrier Air War in Color is a great reference for period color photos for those wanting to duplicate the proper paint schemes and wear for USN aircraft--there are also some good photos of pre war aircraft in color, even a few for the USCG.
VR, Russ
rdt1953
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: February 06, 2015
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Posted: Wednesday, March 29, 2017 - 10:46 AM GMT+7
Nice work Patrick - both the model and your detective work . I sense the car kits will be gathering dust from now on . Welcome to family! Richard
pnance26
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United States
Joined: January 22, 2016
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Posted: Wednesday, March 29, 2017 - 12:55 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Nice work Patrick - both the model and your detective work . I sense the car kits will be gathering dust from now on . Welcome to family! Richard



Well actually Richard, I hear a JS11 Ligier 1980s era F-1 car calling my name now that I have a paint booth set up. That might be next... but this project will be going for a while. Once I start pouring LiquiTex, it will take three days between pours of 1/8" thickness to cure... and I am going about 4' to 4 1/2" deep so you do the math! LOL! I can build a lot of car during those curing periods!

And thanks for the welcome!
thegirl
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: January 19, 2008
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Posted: Thursday, March 30, 2017 - 11:37 AM GMT+7
Nice job on the cockpit , details turn out great . Looking forward on the next up-date .


Terri
pnance26
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United States
Joined: January 22, 2016
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Posted: Thursday, March 30, 2017 - 12:25 PM GMT+7
Thanks! Today was a cold, crappy, foggy day so little done!

But I spent 15 minutes looking at some battle damage and drilling out an area.
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
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Posted: Thursday, March 30, 2017 - 12:47 PM GMT+7
Patrick,
Was thinking about this yesterday-- note in the photo of the life raft I sent in your email that the guy in the raft is using the case for the raft as a hat. Ok, it's labeled a "Pararaft Case". I think what that means is the pilot sat on the para-raft, as part of the parachute pack. I don't know what Ensign Gay said about his "seat cushion" but it strikes me that TBDs, like most Navy aircraft at the time, probably didn't have "seat cushions" but used a seat tray that the parachute sat in.
VR, Russ
pnance26
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United States
Joined: January 22, 2016
KitMaker: 580 posts
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Posted: Thursday, March 30, 2017 - 02:01 PM GMT+7
Well Russ there are lots of holes in the AAR by Ens. Gay but the movie definitely has it wrong that he was floating in a cushion as he says he had a raft!

Thanks for the thoughts!
pnance26
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United States
Joined: January 22, 2016
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Posted: Friday, March 31, 2017 - 04:13 AM GMT+7
Thanks to Russ Bucy (Kevlar06) for the life raft photos!

pnance26
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United States
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Posted: Friday, March 31, 2017 - 02:41 PM GMT+7
A few more lessons today...

Part D21, when installed as indicated, prevents the fuselage halves from mating. However, the part, when installed where it logically goes, in the cockpit just aft of the front bulkhead, is perfect.

And whomever said the kit had few fit issues was wrong! As you can see, the gap between the top plate of the cockpit and the fuselage side has a big gap which I filled and sanded... needs more sanding obviously but I just wanted to make sure the gap was filled.


The front will take some sanded of the cockpit floor in order to allow the front to close completely.


I think (at least I hope) all this will take is pressure to close.


And all that effort in the cockpit just goes away! But we all know it's there, right?


Well, that may be all for the week as the GF of 6 years and fiance of 1.5 years finally decided we should get married next Monday with just family in attendance.

Be back soon, as a married man, who has a friend and soulmate for life! We are both lifelong career Paramedics and she likes my hobbies as well, so all is good in Patrickland!

Your comments and criticisms are always welcome!
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
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Posted: Friday, March 31, 2017 - 03:46 PM GMT+7
Patrick,
Congratulations again! Always remember family comes first-- but it's great your future bride also supports your hobby. Sometimes wives and girlfriends are great sounding boards-- I frequently have to ask my wife about shades of color, since I'm ever so slightly colorblind (certain shades of blue and brown). She never fails to give good advice about my work, or asks the hard questions when she doesn't understand what I'm trying to do. So treasure her and again, congratulations on the upcoming event. The TBD project will still be on the bench when you get back to it.
VR, Russ
rdt1953
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: February 06, 2015
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Posted: Friday, March 31, 2017 - 10:11 PM GMT+7
Patrick- congratulations! Best of luck to you both. Enjoy the journey .

Richard
c4willy
#305
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Christchurch, New Zealand
Joined: February 01, 2006
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Posted: Saturday, April 01, 2017 - 09:44 AM GMT+7
Congrats Patrick! It's a boon when your wife accepts your hobby and supports what you do. I have my own best friend and soul mate been together 30 years, married for 26, two kids who are even more enthusiastic about what I do than their mum (all three are fantastic artists) but their eyes glaze over if I try to tell them about the actual subject LOL.

There will be periods of slow down for the usual reasons (kids etc) but I've found that for me this hobby is the one very enduring things in my life. I look forward to seeing more of your project when you get back to the table. Good luck buddy the journey has only just begun in all respects!
pnance26
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United States
Joined: January 22, 2016
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Posted: Sunday, April 30, 2017 - 06:01 AM GMT+7
Here we are back again... 4 weeks married tomorrow and been sort of piddling on and off with workspace. It is also spring and that means about 6 hours to mow and trim and edge this acre of land... so...

I want to show you that this kit is not what everyone says of GWH... they have fit issues but nothing that cannot be repaired except for one.

First the cockpit needs filled on both sides...


Rear elevator removed... have an idea how to rebuild with BD...


And the first real problem... the opening for the wing plate is about an 1/8 to 1/4" too small... so I will be shaving the wing plate to make it fit...


So there has been progress.

I also bought a balsa wood kit and will use the construction ideas as a way to replicate the elevators and the stabilizer damage (I hope). I plan on building a balsa frame then cover with tissue, then cover with BMF then another layer of tissue, then damage and paint. Any comments about that idea? Will post photos as they happen. Will be working on this Tuesday and Wednedsay before work starts again!

Your comments and criticisms are always welcome!
pnance26
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United States
Joined: January 22, 2016
KitMaker: 580 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 - 08:31 AM GMT+7
I have been able to get a bit more organiazed... unfortunately, acquiring a paint rack means another LHS has bit the dust. Ed and LInda Gordon closed Trains, ETC. here in Tehachapi. They were mainly a choo-choo store but they also stocked paints, adhesives and tools. They both are pushing 70 and after trying to sell the store for 5 years, they closed the doors on Sunday. So sad to see another icon of Tehachapi closed. I bought the Tamiya paint rack and the rest of the Tamiya inventory. I also brought my ladder and tools to take down the sign at closing time on Sunday. Sniff, sniff... good luck Ed and Linda!

But as such, I was able to make some space and get back to the project at hand. I had to paint the arresting hook before closing up the fuselage. I was dry fitting the wing root and besides it being too narrow, I also found a gaping hole where the tail of the torpedo sits inside the fuselage. So I fixed that and also boxed in some very empty wheel wells.

All went in for airplane base color. Felt good to be spray paint.




The paint will dry into a flat green.

Also, I was faced with no hot water source in my workshop except to ferry it out in a thermos... until I discovered the old coffee maker... repurposed into a rattle can heater! Just run a pot of water through and voila! You have smooth spraying paint!


Your comments and criticisms are always welcome!

Scrodes
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 - 01:17 PM GMT+7
Wow, I can't remember the last time I saw a propellant can. So horrible to paint with.
pnance26
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United States
Joined: January 22, 2016
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Posted: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 - 04:44 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Wow, I can't remember the last time I saw a propellant can. So horrible to paint with.



Really? I use them frequently for nonspecific stuff! Nothing wrong with it, IMHO.

In fact, I know lots of people who use them and since I now have a vented paint booth, I don't have a problem with it at all!
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
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Posted: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 - 05:04 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Wow, I can't remember the last time I saw a propellant can. So horrible to paint with.



Really? I use them frequently for nonspecific stuff! Nothing wrong with it, IMHO.

In fact, I know lots of people who use them and since I now have a vented paint booth, I don't have a problem with it at all!



You can also decant spray paint, and spray it through your airbrush. This has given me additional options when it comes to Tamiya paints-- as some of their colors are only available in spray cans.
VR, Russ
pnance26
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United States
Joined: January 22, 2016
KitMaker: 580 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 - 06:03 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Wow, I can't remember the last time I saw a propellant can. So horrible to paint with.



Really? I use them frequently for nonspecific stuff! Nothing wrong with it, IMHO.

In fact, I know lots of people who use them and since I now have a vented paint booth, I don't have a problem with it at all!



You can also decant spray paint, and spray it through your airbrush. This has given me additional options when it comes to Tamiya paints-- as some of their colors are only available in spray cans.
VR, Russ



Did it with that very can to do touch up!
bomber14
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: February 02, 2015
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Posted: Wednesday, May 10, 2017 - 06:25 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Wow, I can't remember the last time I saw a propellant can. So horrible to paint with.



Really? I use them frequently for nonspecific stuff! Nothing wrong with it, IMHO.

In fact, I know lots of people who use them and since I now have a vented paint booth, I don't have a problem with it at all!



have to agree. saves a lot of time and hassel.
joe
pnance26
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United States
Joined: January 22, 2016
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Posted: Thursday, May 11, 2017 - 09:32 AM GMT+7
Doing some filling and sanding... and just sort of musing.

First try with Milliput to make the life raft. This stuff is very interesting!
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And just musing...
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