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Tamiya mix ratio?
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
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Posted: Friday, March 09, 2018 - 05:17 AM UTC
Charlie, I forgot you asked about brushes. I use a selection of fine Camel hair brushes from Faber-Castell that I bought about 20 years ago, which recently has been supplemented with some Windsor and newton brushes. I also have a small selection of oil painting brushes. Here's the deal-- "Hairy Sticks" as they are called in some modeling circles, are a lot like airbrushes-- if you buy quality ones that are expensive, they will usually last longer and provide better service. Avoid the .15 brushes in the round container at the end of the counter in the LHS. Go to an artist supply store, or even a Michaels or Hobby Lobby, and pick out a selection of good (probably the most expensive) brushes. Brushes are sized like steel wool with ooooooo being about the smallest you can find-- they go up from there. I have a favorite "five-O, for-O, and three-O" that I use frequently. Clean them immediately after EVERY use, I like to rinse mine in Lacquer thinner, then a dip in turpentine (careful, lacquer thinner will eat the finish off the handle, but that's not really a big deal). Then, a dip in brush conditioner is usually the norm after each painting session. I then "tip" the brush by taking a bit of saliva (yuck) between my thumb and forefinger, and running the bristles through so that the tip of the brush is pointed. This keeps them in shape (old school artist stuff, probably more of a habit, you could do the same with good brush conditioner. For model purposes, I'd stay away form Nylon brushes, although the have their purposes too. I have a total of about 30 brushes of all types in my brush tin, most have specific purposes, such as face painting or weathering, but for basic brush painting, you need four or five good brushes ranging form really fine to wide sizes. remember, if you take care of them, they will last a while, but if you don't they become just a hardened glob of paint. I also trim brushes down to single hairs (for painting 1/32 scale eyeballs) for very fine applications-- I usually do this with the cheap .15 cent ones though!
VR, Russ
retiredyank
#160
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Arkansas, United States
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Posted: Friday, March 09, 2018 - 04:58 AM UTC

Quoted Text

What is a good recipe for mixing to use with an airbrush?



This is where the confusion lies.
retiredyank
#160
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Arkansas, United States
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Posted: Friday, March 09, 2018 - 04:57 AM UTC

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Actually, if you go look at Andy's Hobby Headquarters' YouTube channel, he has a way that perfectly thins Tamiya paint for airbrushing - no measuring required. Just take a new 23ml bottle and fill it up to the upper lip on the jar with the X20A thinner. Close and shake. Perfectly thinned bottle of paint.
I've been using this method for a while and have not had a single issue with the paint being too thick or thin. And it still brushes on fine.



So this still works for brushes? Any recommendation on type of brushes?

Sorry for the n00b question.



Charlie-- read up a little farther to my comment about mixing the thinner in the paint jar. If you add thinner to the paint in the jar, then you've messed with the chemical formulation of the paint the manufacturer intended. The video guide listed is a poor way to mix paint-- and suitable for only one style of airbrushing. Further adding thinner will screw up the paint carrier to thinner ratios even more (paint "carrier" is the chemical bonding agent the paint pigment is suspended in, and typically is not thinner). For hand painting Tamiya, I recommend mixing in a separate container. Typically, hand painting uses a thicker paint than airbrushing. I'd say to experiment with thinning the paint to get the proper consistency for hand painting (Tamiya is a difficult paint to use for hand painting as it dries rapidly, but I like to use a 3:1 ratio of paint to thinner when I do hand paint with Tamiya-- three parts paint to 1 part thinner). I use nylon pallets from Michael's for small jobs, or mixing cups (I like the plastic medicine measuring cups from NyQuil bottles, but any small cup will work).
VR, Russ



I have never had any issue, with further paint reduction. As well, I have had no issues thickening the mix. Ever. Are you using a double or single action brush? This is the only difference in style that I can see accounting for the discrepancy. Looking at your armor builds, I don't see anything I can't achieve using Andy's method.



Matt,
Firstly, he's asking about hairy stick painting, not airbrushing. Secondly, Tamiya paints use a carrier for the pigment, just like enamels do-- when you add additional thinner, you reduce the paint carrier, not the pigment. adding more thinner reduces it even more. So if you add thinner to a bottle of paint, use some of it, and add more thinner at another time, you've upset the chemistry in the bottle. That's OK if you intend to use that bottle without mixing or thinning further. But if you intend to do something else, you need another bottle. Therefore it becomes a matter of economy--how often do you want to buy new paint? Having said that, I do mix thinner directly in the bottle, then mark those bottles for AB use only for a specific purpose. If I want to do something else, I mix panit outside the bottle. You'll find that paint mixed with thinner in the original bottle will go bad faster too. And this opens a whole new category of subject regarding use and storage of paints. But, I agree, using Andy's method for perfect AB consistency is OK, you just cant go back and use that paint for higher pressure, lower pressure, hairy brush painting, etc. Andy owns a LHS, for him, grabbing a new bottle of paint (or selling additional paint) is no big deal (I can say that because I too used to work in a LHS, the more paint we sold the better!). I'm curious as to how you "thicken" Tamiya paint after its thinned though, can you elaborate?
VR, Russ



Ahhh! Now I understand. My apologies. I have only recently begun brush painting Tamiya acryls. I have not even attempted to thin them, first. I will remove my post.
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 1,927 posts
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Posted: Friday, March 09, 2018 - 04:54 AM UTC

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Actually, if you go look at Andy's Hobby Headquarters' YouTube channel, he has a way that perfectly thins Tamiya paint for airbrushing - no measuring required. Just take a new 23ml bottle and fill it up to the upper lip on the jar with the X20A thinner. Close and shake. Perfectly thinned bottle of paint.
I've been using this method for a while and have not had a single issue with the paint being too thick or thin. And it still brushes on fine.



So this still works for brushes? Any recommendation on type of brushes?

Sorry for the n00b question.



Charlie-- read up a little farther to my comment about mixing the thinner in the paint jar. If you add thinner to the paint in the jar, then you've messed with the chemical formulation of the paint the manufacturer intended. The video guide listed is a poor way to mix paint-- and suitable for only one style of airbrushing. Further adding thinner will screw up the paint carrier to thinner ratios even more (paint "carrier" is the chemical bonding agent the paint pigment is suspended in, and typically is not thinner). For hand painting Tamiya, I recommend mixing in a separate container. Typically, hand painting uses a thicker paint than airbrushing. I'd say to experiment with thinning the paint to get the proper consistency for hand painting (Tamiya is a difficult paint to use for hand painting as it dries rapidly, but I like to use a 3:1 ratio of paint to thinner when I do hand paint with Tamiya-- three parts paint to 1 part thinner). I use nylon pallets from Michael's for small jobs, or mixing cups (I like the plastic medicine measuring cups from NyQuil bottles, but any small cup will work).
VR, Russ



I have never had any issue, with further paint reduction. As well, I have had no issues thickening the mix. Ever. Are you using a double or single action brush? This is the only difference in style that I can see accounting for the discrepancy. Looking at your armor builds, I don't see anything I can't achieve using Andy's method.



Matt,
Firstly, he's asking about hairy stick painting, not airbrushing. Secondly, Tamiya paints use a carrier for the pigment, just like enamels do-- when you add additional thinner, you reduce the paint carrier, not the pigment. adding more thinner reduces it even more. So if you add thinner to a bottle of paint, use some of it, and add more thinner at another time, you've upset the chemistry in the bottle. That's OK if you intend to use that bottle without mixing or thinning further. But if you intend to do something else, you need another bottle. Therefore it becomes a matter of economy--how often do you want to buy new paint? Having said that, I do mix thinner directly in the bottle, then mark those bottles for AB use only for a specific purpose. If I want to do something else, I mix paint outside the bottle. You'll find that paint mixed with thinner in the original bottle will go bad faster too. And this opens a whole new category of subject regarding use and storage of paints. But, I agree, using Andy's method for perfect AB consistency is OK, you just can't go back and use that paint for higher pressure, lower pressure, hairy brush painting, etc. Andy owns a LHS, for him, grabbing a new bottle of paint (or selling additional paint) is no big deal (I can say that because I too used to work in a LHS, the more paint we sold the better!). I'm curious as to how you "thicken" Tamiya paint after it's thinned though, can you elaborate?
VR, Russ
Removed by original poster on 03/09/18 - 23:57:47 (GMT).
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 1,927 posts
AeroScale: 549 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 08, 2018 - 09:40 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Actually, if you go look at Andy's Hobby Headquarters' YouTube channel, he has a way that perfectly thins Tamiya paint for airbrushing - no measuring required. Just take a new 23ml bottle and fill it up to the upper lip on the jar with the X20A thinner. Close and shake. Perfectly thinned bottle of paint.
I've been using this method for a while and have not had a single issue with the paint being too thick or thin. And it still brushes on fine.



So this still works for brushes? Any recommendation on type of brushes?

Sorry for the n00b question.



Charlie-- read up a little farther to my comment about mixing the thinner in the paint jar. If you add thinner to the paint in the jar, then you've messed with the chemical formulation of the paint the manufacturer intended. The video guide listed is a poor way to mix paint-- and suitable for only one style of airbrushing. Further adding thinner will screw up the paint carrier to thinner ratios even more (paint "carrier" is the chemical bonding agent the paint pigment is suspended in, and typically is not thinner). For hand painting Tamiya, I recommend mixing in a separate container. Typically, hand painting uses a thicker paint than airbrushing. I'd say to experiment with thinning the paint to get the proper consistency for hand painting (Tamiya is a difficult paint to use for hand painting as it dries rapidly, but I like to use a 3:1 ratio of paint to thinner when I do hand paint with Tamiya-- three parts paint to 1 part thinner). I use nylon pallets from Michael's for small jobs, or mixing cups (I like the plastic medicine measuring cups from NyQuil bottles, but any small cup will work).
VR, Russ
ChurchSTSV
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Arizona, United States
Joined: September 20, 2017
KitMaker: 105 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 08, 2018 - 09:12 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Actually, if you go look at Andy's Hobby Headquarters' YouTube channel, he has a way that perfectly thins Tamiya paint for airbrushing - no measuring required. Just take a new 23ml bottle and fill it up to the upper lip on the jar with the X20A thinner. Close and shake. Perfectly thinned bottle of paint.
I've been using this method for a while and have not had a single issue with the paint being too thick or thin. And it still brushes on fine.



So this still works for brushes? Any recommendation on type of brushes?

Sorry for the n00b question.
Anmoga
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Spain / España
Joined: November 18, 2004
KitMaker: 434 posts
AeroScale: 10 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 - 09:03 PM UTC
For base colors I use a 50/50 ratio. I use ethylic alcohol or Isopropyl alcohol as solvent and for cleaning and up til now haven't got any issue.

For detail work I use a ratio of at least 70% thinner.

I haven't got any issue with paint drying in the air but if you have that issue you could add a drop of Tamiya's acrylic retarder.

Regards,
Angel
retiredyank
#160
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Arkansas, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 - 07:15 AM UTC
You can't do the same thing, with the large jars. But, why would you want to? Buy two of the minis and use one for brush painting.
Herchealer
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Indiana, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 - 05:09 AM UTC
Not really sure, But hey, what is the worst thing that could happen? Your out a couple of bucks? ( As long as you don't test it right away on that 200 model.) I thought he used 10ml bottles, I guess he does use the 23ml. Not used to seeing the larger ones, so just assumed the 10ml.... Know what happens when we assume though.... LOL
mogdude
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United States
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Posted: Monday, February 26, 2018 - 07:50 PM UTC
would it be same for 10ml bottle ?
retiredyank
#160
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Arkansas, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 - 02:18 PM UTC
After having tried XA acryl thinner, Tamiya lacquer thinner, distilled water and isopropyl alcohol, I find Mr. Leveling Thinner works best. I usually reduce the paint 2:3 or 1:1(paint:thinner) and spray at 15-20psi. I also mix, in bottle. But, I have two bottles of most colors. This slots one bottle for a single type of use. However, you can change the chemistry by adding undiluted paint to the mix.
Jeff8600
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Georgia, United States
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Posted: Monday, December 04, 2017 - 10:16 PM UTC
For the best results with Tamiya paints I stopped using their thinner. I use Mr. Leveling Thinner and it works great. It is much smoother. I also do a bout 1:1 paint to thinner but you might have to experiment a bit to get what you like.
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 - 12:53 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The OP asked about mixing for use in an airbrush, for which this method works just fine without having to measure ratios.




Ok, I watched the video. And it's as I thought, he's mixed the entire bottle in one ratio, which makes the entire bottle useful for only one style of airbrushing-- and will change the paint chemistry in the bottle-- which most manufacturers don't recommend. Fine lines, mottling, elimination of overspray, and finely feathered edges may be more difficult to obtain with that single mix, not to mention the paint may become less useful over time. There are painless methods for mixing paint in proper ratios which don't affect the entire bottle. I personally like to use small clear plastic ml cups for mixing-- the type in which medicines are dispensed in hospitals. I pour in the paint I need to the appropriate ml marker, and add the amount of required thinner with a pipette, then just pour into the AB cup. These cups can be purchased through Micro-Mark or Model Expo a hundred at a pop- which means I can clean them or toss them if necessary. For Andy's one method, there are ten others on you-tube that recommend mixing Tamiya and other paints in separate containers.
VR, Russ
RussianArmor
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Posted: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 - 12:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I couldn't find it on the website mentioned-- can you post a link? I suspect this method uses the entire bottle, which will then render it useless for other applications, but I'd like to know if that's true.
VR, Russ



Here is a link to the YouTube video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4Xv3ZPtJ2Q

It's around the 4:40 mark in the video.

And yes, the entire bottle will be mixed at that ratio forever. If you need multiple mixed ratios, then this method isn't for you.

The OP asked about mixing for use in an airbrush, for which this method works just fine without having to measure ratios.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 - 12:16 AM UTC

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I couldn't find it on the website mentioned-- can you post a link? I suspect this method uses the entire bottle, which will then render it useless for other applications, but I'd like to know if that's true.
VR, Russ



I have hand painted with thinned Tamiya before. It works just fine. Tamiya is not the best paint for hand painting anyway so it's not that much different.



Hand painting isn't what I was referring to- once you mix any paint, it's mixed forever in that ratio. If you want it to be thinner, you'll end up diluting it even more if you add more thinner. So if you want a certain effect, or change your air pressure requirement, you may not be able to use that mixed paint. And if you need to thicken it, it's like putting toothpaste back into the tube-- you can't really return it to the manufacturers specs to get it thicker. So once you add thinner to any bottle of paint, that's the consistency of the paint you're going to have to live with. That's why most professional painters and artists try and mix thier paints in a separate container. However-- I haven't been able to see the video, so I don't know what this guy is doing-- I found a lot on his website, but not the Tamiya mixing guide.
VR, Russ
TotemWolf
#288
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Oklahoma, United States
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Posted: Monday, September 18, 2017 - 11:19 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I couldn't find it on the website mentioned-- can you post a link? I suspect this method uses the entire bottle, which will then render it useless for other applications, but I'd like to know if that's true.
VR, Russ



I have hand painted with thinned Tamiya before. It works just fine. Tamiya is not the best paint for hand painting anyway so it's not that much different.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Monday, September 18, 2017 - 09:36 PM UTC
I couldn't find it on the website mentioned-- can you post a link? I suspect this method uses the entire bottle, which will then render it useless for other applications, but I'd like to know if that's true.
VR, Russ
j76lr
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Posted: Monday, September 18, 2017 - 07:06 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Actually, if you go look at Andy's Hobby Headquarters' YouTube channel, he has a way that perfectly thins Tamiya paint for airbrushing - no measuring required. Just take a new 23ml bottle and fill it up to the upper lip on the jar with the X20A thinner. Close and shake. Perfectly thinned bottle of paint.
I've been using this method for a while and have not had a single issue with the paint being too thick or thin. And it still brushes on fine.



I use this method too, with no problems. before this as a rule of thumb , i used 50-50 thinned with alcohol.
RussianArmor
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Georgia, United States
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Posted: Monday, September 18, 2017 - 04:30 PM UTC
Actually, if you go look at Andy's Hobby Headquarters' YouTube channel, he has a way that perfectly thins Tamiya paint for airbrushing - no measuring required. Just take a new 23ml bottle and fill it up to the upper lip on the jar with the X20A thinner. Close and shake. Perfectly thinned bottle of paint.
I've been using this method for a while and have not had a single issue with the paint being too thick or thin. And it still brushes on fine.
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 1,927 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 18, 2017 - 06:27 AM UTC

Quoted Text

What is a good recipe for mixing to use with an airbrush?



It depends on what type of coverage you want. I like to start out with a Tamiya basecoat of paint, sprayed over a good primer, mixed at about 40% paint to 60% thinner at 12-15 PSI. But it also depends on the color density, for example, I go 50/50 when using lighter colors like white, yellows, tans or light grays. But when doing detail work I like to go about 30% paint to 70% thinner, especially for fine lines and motles, which I usually spray at 8-12 PSI.
VR, Russ
STLDALE
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Missouri, United States
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Posted: Monday, September 18, 2017 - 03:18 AM UTC
What is a good recipe for mixing to use with an airbrush?