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World War II: Japan
Aircraft of Japan in WWII.
Hosted by Rowan Baylis
First Shapeways Experience
rdt1953
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Posted: Saturday, November 25, 2017 - 03:53 AM UTC
Hi to all-
I thought I might share my first Shapeways/3D printing experience .

I've been wanting to do a floatplane and catapult for some time so I have begun to explore it a bit. A google search for IJN 1/48 catapult led me to Shapeways. The catapult itself is offered along with cradles and deck trollies for both single and twin float configurations. A number of other items are also available for deck handling-rails, turntables and I believe a crane as well.
As this is my first experience with 3D printing of any sort I ordered only the single float cradle - approx $ 17 USD plus shipping vs $ 145 USD for the catapult - a little easier to absorb if I was unhappy with the product.
So far the experience has been great. I ordered the cradle and within the hour I got a communication from Shapeways saying that the product was not printable due to the design . Within the next hour I received further communication from both Shapeways and the designer saying the problem had been corrected and i could re- order which I did.
I received it today - the entire process took about one week.






The material seems to be nylon - a slight sintered texture is apparent . I spent about one half hour lightly scraping with a new # 11 blade and 800 silicon carbide paper before taking photos . I don't know if the real thing had rivets - it likely did - but there are none on the product so clean up was simplified and they are easily added if needed.

After a wash up in soapy water I plan to hit it with the excellent Stynylrez Primer from Badger in grey . I'll update this post afterwords with the results.
Any and all input is certainly welcome as this is my first rodeo in 3D print town .
Cheers - Richard
Merlin
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Posted: Saturday, November 25, 2017 - 02:49 PM UTC
Hi Richard

It's very neat and save hours and hours of scratchbuilding. I'm confused, though, that they initially said it was unprintable - you've have thought they'd have checked for any issues before offering the item for sale.

All the best

Rowan
Pave-Hawk
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Posted: Saturday, November 25, 2017 - 04:28 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm confused, though, that they initially said it was unprintable - you've have thought they'd have checked for any issues before offering the item for sale


There are two stages of checks at shapeways, the first is an automated check that will tell you if the design file is a valid 3D object that can be printed.
The final check is by humans when they actually attempt to print it, and they make the final determination of whether the detail might be to fine or if there is something else that will prevent a successful print in the chosen material.

A shapeways store may just be creating objects for sale, and the seller may not have tried a test print on every object, because that could get very expensive if they are offering a lot of items for sale.
rdt1953
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Posted: Sunday, November 26, 2017 - 12:17 AM UTC
Thanks Rowan & Iain - I believe Iain is correct as it would seem a little impractical to physically test make everything offered as the number of products is mind boggling. I also think that I must be the first to buy this item as the printing issues were only discovered after my purchase.

I have shot the cradle with primer and it revealed that quite a bit of cleanup remained to be done.



Here is cradle after another hour's work and a second coat of Stynylrez primer -



Much better but could stand even more attention. For future reference it may be best to prime after washing then begin cleanup as the translucent nature of the product makes it difficult to see imperfections -I would also caution against using Vallejo primers because they are unsandable and this product needs sanding in spades.

The jury is still out for me on this - the catapult itself is likely to require 5 to 10 times the amount of cleanup that this small component needed. If one could live with the pebbly/striated textures then it would be a no-brainer as the detail and overall feel of it are very nice indeed but,because short of scratch build with no plans or the paper model route ,it seems to be the only game in town for 1/48. If the printed catapult was in two or more pieces so the interior was accessible it would be better but I assume it is one piece for the catapult and one for the base.

I'll sleep on it a bit but will likely weaken and buy in - we'll see.
More input on this would be valuable to me - Thanks - Richard
Pave-Hawk
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Posted: Sunday, November 26, 2017 - 03:31 AM UTC
The material you have there looks like the frosted ultra detail, which is a uv cure acrylic resin.
If that's the case, then it may have benefited from a few minutes under a uv lamp or an hour in some direct sun just to ensure full cure.
Being resin you could also probably be a bit more aggressive with the sandpaper and use a 400 grit to smooth out the texture.
rdt1953
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Posted: Sunday, November 26, 2017 - 03:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The material you have there looks like the frosted ultra detail, which is a uv cure acrylic resin.
If that's the case, then it may have benefited from a few minutes under a uv lamp or an hour in some direct sun just to ensure full cure.
Being resin you could also probably be a bit more aggressive with the sandpaper and use a 400 grit to smooth out the texture.



Thanks for your help Iain - seems you may have some experience with this stuff.
Shapeways states the material is " White strong and flexible- a white nylon plastic with a frosted finish " - this may be different than acrylic resin - if it is I presume it is used for its apparent higher tensile strength- again , I am not certain as this is all new to me. Cheers - Richard
Pave-Hawk
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Posted: Sunday, November 26, 2017 - 05:45 AM UTC
Ok, doesn't sound sound like the frosted ultra then.

Found this link that deals with the textural problem with one type of nylon print from shapeways.
Merlin
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Posted: Sunday, November 26, 2017 - 03:10 PM UTC
Hi Iain

Thanks for the explanation. I took a look and there's some interesting stuff listed.

All the best

Rowan
rdt1953
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Posted: Sunday, November 26, 2017 - 04:47 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Ok, doesn't sound sound like the frosted ultra then.

Found this link that deals with the textural problem with one type of nylon print from shapeways.



Thanks to Iain's link I have learned that this material is in powder form before printing and therefore the texture runs throughout the component. Scraping as I initially did may only expose subsequent layers of texture so repetitive priming and block sanding may be the only way to go .
Richard
Joel_W
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Posted: Monday, November 27, 2017 - 10:25 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Ok, doesn't sound sound like the frosted ultra then.

Found this link that deals with the textural problem with one type of nylon print from shapeways.



Thanks to Iain's link I have learned that this material is in powder form before printing and therefore the texture runs throughout the component. Scraping as I initially did may only expose subsequent layers of texture so repetitive priming and block sanding may be the only way to go .
Richard



Richard,
I know virtually nothing about 3D printing, so my comments as usual are from a plastic modelers point of view.

the casting while making for a ton of clean up, doesn't require gluing any parts together, so fit isn't an issue, nor having a poor fit requiring filling and more sanding isn't an issue either. On the other hand painting looks to be concern where getting your Air Brush into all those small nooks and crannies could be a challenge. Same for realistic weathering.

So far from the pictures and your narrative, I'd say that you made the right decision, and 3D printing does have it's place in Scale plastic modeling.

Joel
rdt1953
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Posted: Monday, November 27, 2017 - 10:46 PM UTC
Thanks for the input Joel - I was on the fence about ordering the catapult itself given the amount of work it may need and limited access to do said work. Then I got an email from Shapeways offering CyberMonday discounts and free shipping so I pulled the trigger on it . I'll post pics when it arrives. Richard
mrockhill
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Posted: Monday, November 27, 2017 - 11:04 PM UTC
Its simply amazing to me that such things are available, my hats off to whoever decided the world needed scale replicas of WWII japanese floatplane cradles and launch catapaults and took the time to design them. I also scratch my head as to how one designs such complex and arcane things, that took a certain inspiration to create, and then not try to "print" them.
c4willy
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Posted: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 - 01:22 AM UTC
I've been investigating investing in a 3D printer as I could see the benefits of manufacturing one off parts for mods or replacements. I've also fooled around with some simple cad programs to create the templates for parts. I wonder if there's a resource out there for 3D printed parts templates??

I've been looking at shapeways for a while and wondered about their product my thanks for the look at one of their offerings it's been informative.
rdt1953
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Posted: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 - 01:58 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Its simply amazing to me that such things are available, my hats off to whoever decided the world needed scale replicas of WWII japanese floatplane cradles and launch catapaults and took the time to design them. I also scratch my head as to how one designs such complex and arcane things, that took a certain inspiration to create, and then not try to "print" them.



Mike & Chris - Thanks for looking in - Go to Shapeways.com and type " Kure ships" in search box-I tried to post link but the http code does not display - diStephan 3D print designer Sasa Drobac's offerings for Japanese ships - I believe they can be made in just about any scale. It seems I may be the first to buy & try -

If one wanted it seems an entire deck scene could be done . Interesting to note that the cost of the catapult more than doubles from 1/48 to 1/32 !

Cheers - Richard
Joel_W
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Posted: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 - 03:01 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks for the input Joel - I was on the fence about ordering the catapult itself given the amount of work it may need and limited access to do said work. Then I got an email from Shapeways offering CyberMonday discounts and free shipping so I pulled the trigger on it . I'll post pics when it arrives. Richard



Richard,
Looking forward to seeing the catapult.

I really have to checkout their site. I've got the 1/32 Kitty Hawk Kingfisher just waiting for an excuse to be built.

Joel
c4willy
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Posted: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 - 07:49 AM UTC
I'd love to see it built Joel is that not inducement enough? Lol
rdt1953
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Posted: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 - 04:45 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Thanks for the input Joel - I was on the fence about ordering the catapult itself given the amount of work it may need and limited access to do said work. Then I got an email from Shapeways offering CyberMonday discounts and free shipping so I pulled the trigger on it . I'll post pics when it arrives. Richard



Richard,
Looking forward to seeing the catapult.

I really have to checkout their site. I've got the 1/32 Kitty Hawk Kingfisher just waiting for an excuse to be built.

Joel



Joel- Shapeways offers a USN P 6 catapult for your Kingfisher but you may change your mind when you see the price - yikes ! $$$$

Better talk to your mortgage broker!
Richard
Joel_W
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Posted: Wednesday, November 29, 2017 - 12:37 AM UTC
Richard,
It figures. My wife would never let me mortgage the house as we killed ourselves paying a 30 year mortgage off n 18 years

Chris,

I keep on looking at the kit, and I'm dying to get at it, but honestly it's scares me to death. I've read horror stories as all the issues including trying to actually get the engine mounted correctly. Still, sooner then later I'm going to give it a go, as I really don't have much of a later left.

Joel
rdt1953
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Posted: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 - 05:19 PM UTC
It seems the catapult is caught up in the shipping debacle where UPS takes it to my local post office and then the Post Office delivers it to me. UPS tracking says my post office received it - post office says they never got it - the Shapeways facility that made it is less than 2 hrs away by automobile and now we have a woman in Central Europe looking for it !
It's a different world folks- Richard
AmTrac1833
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Posted: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 - 06:37 PM UTC
I've been turning to 3D-printed parts for much of my detail parts lately. Various radios, M60 machine gun, ammo cans, shackles and sorts other stuff in 1/35 & 1/700. I prefer the detail (and cost) of 3D-prints over same items in resin, which is typically the only alternative.
Joel_W
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Posted: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 - 11:18 PM UTC

Quoted Text

It seems the catapult is caught up in the shipping debacle where UPS takes it to my local post office and then the Post Office delivers it to me. UPS tracking says my post office received it - post office says they never got it - the Shapeways facility that made it is less than 2 hrs away by automobile and now we have a woman in Central Europe looking for it !
It's a different world folks- Richard



Richard,
That sucks for sure. Will Shapeways ship you a replacement if this doesn't get resolved sooner then later?

Joel
rdt1953
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Posted: Thursday, December 14, 2017 - 04:00 AM UTC
The woman said Shapeways will offer reprint if package is lost but I have no idea what sort of time frame is involved- truth be told I'm in no hurry so I'll ride it out- more to follow ! ( everyone enjoys a mystery , correct ? )

Richard
Merlin
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Posted: Thursday, December 14, 2017 - 04:13 AM UTC
Hi Richard

What a saga on what should have been so straightforward.

I've got to ask... if the post office deny ever receiving it (presumably somebody signed for it in order for UPS to declare their part in the sequence completed?), how/why has the search shifted to Europe?

All the best

Rowan
rdt1953
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Posted: Thursday, December 14, 2017 - 06:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Richard

What a saga on what should have been so straightforward.

I've got to ask... if the post office deny ever receiving it (presumably somebody signed for it in order for UPS to declare their part in the sequence completed?), how/why has the search shifted to Europe?

All the best




Rowan


Hi Rowan - I'll do my best to dissect this with the caveat that some of it is speculative on my part .
First an explanation of the parties involved as I understand it.
Shapeways - the company that actually does the 3D printing ( manufacturers)
UPS - ( United Parcel Service ) - a privately owned delivery business- I don't know if they operate outside the USA
USPS - ( United States Postal Service ) - an agency of the Federal Government responsible for delivering the mail.
After ordering the catapult from Shapeways they keep you abreast of the progress via their website until the object has been actually made and when shipped you are notified via e- mail and given tracking info .
Some businesses use a shipping process whereby UPS ( private) delivers the package to your local Post Office ( USPS-government) and the Post Office then delivers it to the final destination ( my house )
I fail to see the advantage of this labyrinthine method as UPS also does service to your door - however , I am not in the shipping business so there may be benefits to some that I am not aware of.
My tracking info supplied to me by Shapeways via a link to UPS ( private) stated package accepted at my local post office on a Friday at approximately 11 am.
Expected delivery by the following Tuesday.
When Tuesday came and went with no package I printed out the page from UPS and took it to my Post Office- they checked their system and had no record of receiving it .
So the finger pointing begins - UPS say they delivered - USPS says they didn't.
I informed Shapeways of the issue via their system by e mail - of course there is no phone to actually speak to a human being.
Their contact info said someone will respond within 8 hours and indeed they did .
The e mail I received from a woman from Shapeways had a time stamp on it Central Europe Time .- hence my belief that she was indeed in Central Europe.
I don't know if Shapeways is Headquartered there or if, to their credit , it was handed off to her in order to keep their promise of a response within 8 hours as the people in the USA were likely asleep as I was.
So there we have it folks - stay tuned for more drama !
Hobbies are fun , right ? Richard
rdt1953
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Posted: Saturday, December 16, 2017 - 02:23 AM UTC
The catapult showed up today on my doorstep - never heard from the woman at Shapeways but I will certainly let her know.

This is how it arrives - well packed and in good order -





impressive size -



This seems to be a different material than the cradle- opaque white rather than translucent - and the texture is a coarse pebbly one-



The cradle will take much work to get it to fit the rails-



Here it is posed with Hasegawa's 1/48 Pete -



So I am not entirely thrilled . The clean up will take considerable effort - but I assumed that before purchasing. It certainly has the potential for an impressive model. I have since acquired " The Heavy Cruiser Takao " by Janusz Skulski from the Anatomy of the Ship series . Absolutely incredible piece of work with some of the finest draftsmanship I have seen. This must represent many years of work for the author and he should be applauded .
It contains detailed catapult drawings so I could certainly scratch build one now if I choose. I'll come back to this after the Hayabusa Dio is wrapped up.
If anyone out there has one of the Hasegawa 1/72 floatplane with catapult kits and would be willing to copy the instructions for me I would be grateful - PM me if you do .

to be continued - Thanks - Richard