login   |    register
Modern (1975-today)
Discuss the modern aircraft age from 1975 thru today.
Hosted by Kevin Brant
Colours Swedish Air Force Gripen?
BlackWidow
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Baden-Württemberg, Germany
Joined: August 09, 2009
KitMaker: 1,170 posts
AeroScale: 1,049 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 03, 2018 - 02:15 AM UTC
Hi folks,
my next project will be Italeri's Saab JAS 39 Gripen Single Seater (1/48) in the colours of the Swedish Air Force. As I'm not so familiar with the colours of them I would like to know, if the paint intruction of Italeri are correct.
For the underside and nose Italeri says it's Light Ghost Grey and the upperside it's Medium Grey.
This is how it should look like in the end:
https://wall.alphacoders.com/big.php?i=725770

Any help is appreciated! Thanks in advance!
Torsten

PS: I have FS 36473 (Vallejo 71046) in stock and would use it instead LGG FS 36375. Would that come close?
magnusf
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: May 02, 2006
KitMaker: 1,667 posts
AeroScale: 1,617 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 03, 2018 - 04:14 AM UTC
Torsten!

Look at the bottom of this page and you'll get FS matches for Gripen: http://www.ipmsstockholm.se/home/urbans-color-reference-charts-part-i/urbans-colour-reference-charts-sweden/

A popular combo out of the bottle seems to be Tamiya XF-19 / XF-53.

I'll dig around some more, stay tuned!



Magnus
BlackWidow
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Baden-Württemberg, Germany
Joined: August 09, 2009
KitMaker: 1,170 posts
AeroScale: 1,049 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 03, 2018 - 07:27 AM UTC
Magnus,

thanks a lot for that link! In fact, I didn't think of that. The problem is, that I don't have that Tamiya paints here and mainly use Vallejo.

And here is another problem: Vallejo don't have the needed FS paints in their range. At the moment I think of using other FS paints which come close to the real ones. This is what I found out. On the left side are the suggested FS paints 36373/36173 by IPMS Stockholm and on the right side you can see the paints that I have in stock, 36473 and 36176. That comes close and I might use them if I don't find a better colour match in the next days. The difference isn't so big and I guess I can live with it ....

On the other hand I might step back from that Gripen project until I find the correct colours, depending on the brand. Revell is easy to get here but they don't give FS-No. to their paints. Tamiya is not so easy to get here ....

Torsten
magnusf
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: May 02, 2006
KitMaker: 1,667 posts
AeroScale: 1,617 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 04, 2018 - 08:50 PM UTC
Torsten! After doing some serious multi-step conversions (and possibly loosing the the colour fidelity in the process...) I've arrived at the following:

Top surfaces possibly Vallejo 836
Lower surfaces possibly Vallejo 879 or Revell 75

Another option is getting Mr Paint laquer paints number 222 and 223 which are both dedicated to the Gripen. I think in that case you might have to get yourself some white as well to adjust the contrast if it looks wrong on the model.

I've also sent a mail to a friend who is very much into Swedish AF stuff, I do however suspect that I will get a Tamiya or possibly Gunze answer from him !

If you have easy access to Vallejo it could be worth doing a quick test just to check what it looks like before committing to the model!

Best regards

Magnus
BlackWidow
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Baden-Württemberg, Germany
Joined: August 09, 2009
KitMaker: 1,170 posts
AeroScale: 1,049 posts
Posted: Monday, November 05, 2018 - 08:24 AM UTC
Wow, thanks for all your effort, Magnus! I didn't expect that ....
I've checked your suggestions concerning Valljo 70836 and 70879. That 836 for the upperside could fit but as I see from the webside 879 sure would not. It's far too brownish. Same is with Revell 75 Stonegrey, which I have here.

But I've checked my Vallejo boxes yesterday and found some other tones which could fit. First it's 71114 Medium Grey FS35237, which comes very close to the desired tone for the upperside. Then I found 71120 Dark Ghost Grey FS36320, which might be okay for the underside. Furthermore I found 71257 Lichtblau RLM 76 (new) which might also look good on the underside. But I'm still in favour for 71046 Pale Grey Blue FS36473 for the underside, which was also used for the older RLM 76 tone. Far too dark for the upperside in my opinion is 71273 Ocean Grey FS36176, which is even darker in my bottle than here on the monitor. I even found Gunze H 308 Grey FS36375 in my paint box, which looks lighter than here on the screen.

I have all these paints here and this evening I made some test spraying on plastic spoons. I will take photos of that tomorrow in daylight and show them here. From the first view my favourite combination so far is Vallejo 71046 and 71114 or 71257 and 71114. Not sure yet ....

Thanks a lot, Magnus!
Torsten

Btw, there lies a Gripen Twin Seater kit here beside the Single Seater. I hope the SAAF colours are not too much different to the Swedish AF ones. I'm already checking. Otherwise I might go crazy ....
BlackWidow
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Baden-Württemberg, Germany
Joined: August 09, 2009
KitMaker: 1,170 posts
AeroScale: 1,049 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 06, 2018 - 06:50 AM UTC
There was not enough daylight left when I came home today, so I had to use the lamp on my workbench but I guess all different tones are clearly visible. I hope the FS-No. are not written too small in the photo ....


.... and these are the tones I would choose for my Gripen ....


What do you think?
Torsten

I've checked the colours for SAAF Gripens and found out that they are painted in FS35375 and FS36320. No propblems here as I have both in stock. So there will be another dual combo on my workbench very soon ....
magnusf
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: May 02, 2006
KitMaker: 1,667 posts
AeroScale: 1,617 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 06, 2018 - 07:47 AM UTC
Torsten! That looks like a very good start, the only thing I would worry about is that it might come out a bit dark but you have probably found the right colours.

The look of a Gripen varies quite a bit with the lighting conditions. Also, the paint is fairly "rough" to the touch so it weathers rather badly towards more warm/brownish shades. I made a quick visit in my photo archives and came up with a few of my own photos, please see below!


This one looks fairly grubby, photo taken in October 2005.


Another dirty one, May 2010.


Same date as the first one (October 2005) but I suspect this was an almost factory-fresh 39C.


August 2007 at SAAB, a two-seater that probably was about to be delivered to the Air Force.


June 2010, this one was almost pristine!


And another view of the same aircraft.

Note how the lower surfaces look almost white in many photos.



Magnus
BlackWidow
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Baden-Württemberg, Germany
Joined: August 09, 2009
KitMaker: 1,170 posts
AeroScale: 1,049 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 07, 2018 - 07:37 AM UTC
Magnus, thanks a lot for showing us some of your Gripen shots. I hope you don't mind that I have downloaded them as a reference for me ....

Looking at your photos and hearing your objection that FS35237 might be a bit too dark for the upperside, you are probably right. Though the influence of (day)light is always big. Which can be seen clearly in your photos 2, 3 and 4. In fact FS35237 is lighter in daylight than under a neonlamp as shown in my photo above. Though it made me think that I might have to look for something else. The colour for the underside FS36473 looks pretty right though. During my research for SAAF Gripens I found 2 photos of the same aircraft which shows the metamerism of the grey tones in different light really clear. Look here and compare it with this photo. Same aircraft, different lights, different shades of grey. I'm a bit confused now ....

I believe it's up to what I want it/them to look like in the end. And I don't have the claim to be perfect.

Torsten