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Armor/AFV: AA/AT/Artillery
For discussions about artillery and anti-aircraft or anti-tank guns.
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Afro-American art units
Paulinsibculo
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Overijssel, Netherlands
Joined: July 01, 2010
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Posted: Friday, December 07, 2018 - 05:02 AM UTC
Dear all,
Having noticed that the contribution of Afro-Americans in WW2 was quite larger than shown, at least in the modelling world, I would try to build a Afro-American crew with a M4 High Speed art tractor with a Long Tom.
But......
Has there ever been such a combination?
At least the M4 would be great.

Thanks in advance
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
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Posted: Friday, December 07, 2018 - 06:12 AM UTC
Not sure about "Long Tom" units, but there were several Afro-American Artillery Units in the ETO during WWII. At least one M1 155mm Howitzer Regiment used the M968A Diamond T truck as a prime mover. I'm trying to replicate that unit right now with the Bronco M1 Howitzer and the Mirror Models M968A, but there are not many photos on the 'net for reference.
VR,Russ
HeavyArty
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Florida, United States
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Posted: Friday, December 07, 2018 - 06:37 AM UTC
First off, it would be an arty unit. Art unit sounds like they are painting pictures and making sculptures.

The M4 HST was the prime mover for the M1A1 "Long Tom" howitzer. I don't know if any of the Long Tom units were colored units though.
DG0542
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New York, United States
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Posted: Friday, December 07, 2018 - 06:47 AM UTC
During the Battle of Bastonge there were two artillery battalions that were trapped in with the 101st that were corp level that were Afro-American Units. the 333rd Field Artillery Battalion and it's sister Battalion the 969th which was attached to the 333rd as it was decimated. They had M1 155mm Howitzers.
Paulinsibculo
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Overijssel, Netherlands
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Posted: Friday, December 07, 2018 - 06:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text

First off, it would be an arty unit. Art unit sounds like they are painting pictures and making sculptures.

The M4 HST was the prime mover for the M1A1 "Long Tom" howitzer. I don't know if any of the Long Tom units were colored units though.



Sorry!
Not a native speaker: Dutch

But thanks for the info.
It is more about the M4. I want to finish it after it spent a few months on the shelf.
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
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Posted: Friday, December 07, 2018 - 07:19 AM UTC
You might be better off trying to depict one of those Long Tom units during the Korean War. Ampersand's book on the HST has at least one photo of Afro-American Artillery unit members (but I think the Army was fully integrated by that time), riding the HST as a prime mover for an M1 Long Tom. But unless you have the Master aftermarket kit, the AFV Club Long Tom is a very late WWII and Korean War M1A1 version with the late carriage and tires, making it almost unsuitable for anything but the closing days of WWII in the ETO (those late Long Toms did see plenty of action in the Pacific though).
VR, Russ
Frenchy
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Rhone, France
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Posted: Friday, December 07, 2018 - 09:12 AM UTC
At least there's a M4 HST in the picture below

"M4 18-ton High Speed Tractor with towed 8-inch howitzer, 999th FA Bn (Colored), Nantes-Gassicourt, France, 20 August 1944."


H.P.
Namnut
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Noord-Holland, Netherlands
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Posted: Friday, December 07, 2018 - 09:37 AM UTC
Here's a wiki link to the Wereth 11 and their respective artillery unit(s)...

Shocking story but some insight into artillery units..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/333rd_Field_Artillery_Battalion_(United_States)

Harald
KoSprueOne
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Myanmar
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Posted: Friday, December 07, 2018 - 02:34 PM UTC

Quoted Text

First off, it would be an arty unit. Art unit sounds like they are painting pictures and making sculptures.

...



Ah yes, the topic title made me look.




Paulinsibculo
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Overijssel, Netherlands
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Posted: Friday, December 21, 2018 - 03:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text

At least there's a M4 HST in the picture below

"M4 18-ton High Speed Tractor with towed 8-inch howitzer, 999th FA Bn (Colored), Nantes-Gassicourt, France, 20 August 1944."


H.P.



Thanks, Frenchy!
So, now I do have a crew, a mix from various Miniart sets (quite a challenge to find men without all combat gear hanging on their bodies!) and Hornet heads.
Now the last question is how the bumper code would be.
Hopefully a WW2 USA arty specialist can help me here, please.
Thanks in advance.
A happy Christmas Season to you all.

P.
Frenchy
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Rhone, France
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Posted: Friday, December 21, 2018 - 07:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Now the last question is how the bumper code would be.



Here's my take (But I'm no expert ) :

3A 999F (or 999FA) C10 (= 3rd Army, 999th Field Artillery Battalion, Battery C, 10th vehicle)

Unit identification markings for U.S. military vehicles

Below the right half of the windshield, there seems to be a unit identifier of three horizontal colored bars generally associated with amphibious operations.

H.P.



Paulinsibculo
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Overijssel, Netherlands
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Posted: Friday, December 21, 2018 - 10:28 AM UTC
Merci, monsieur!
Bon Noel a vous.
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
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Posted: Friday, December 21, 2018 - 11:53 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Now the last question is how the bumper code would be.



Here's my take (But I'm no expert ) :

3A 999F (or 999FA) C10 (= 3rd Army, 999th Field Artillery Battalion, Battery C, 10th vehicle)

Unit identification markings for U.S. military vehicles

Below the right half of the windshield, there seems to be a unit identifier of three horizontal colored bars generally associated with amphibious operations.

H.P.






Yes, but... I think that's an 8" outfit, not a 155mm Long Tom M1 unit. The original question was M-4 HST and "Long Tom". I'm sure there is an Afro-American 155mm unit though-- just need to find them.
VR, Russ
Paulinsibculo
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Overijssel, Netherlands
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Posted: Friday, December 21, 2018 - 06:10 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Now the last question is how the bumper code would be.



Here's my take (But I'm no expert ) :

3A 999F (or 999FA) C10 (= 3rd Army, 999th Field Artillery Battalion, Battery C, 10th vehicle)

Unit identification markings for U.S. military vehicles

Below the right half of the windshield, there seems to be a unit identifier of three horizontal colored bars generally associated with amphibious operations.

H.P.






Yes, but... I think that's an 8" outfit, not a 155mm Long Tom M1 unit. The original question was M-4 HST and "Long Tom". I'm sure there is an Afro-American 155mm unit though-- just need to find them.
VR, Russ



Dear Russ,

Thanks for your input.
But....

The most important thing is that I want to make an AfroľAmerican arti crew.
( to my humble opinion the Afro American subject is not very well represented any way. An idea maybe, MBLtd, Miniart???)
I do have both gun types in my stash so that can be fixed. ( even with the ww2 version of the gun dolly)
So, with the help of Archer I am now able to do the bumper code.
Thanks to you all and have a happy Christmas Season.
18Bravo
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Saturday, December 22, 2018 - 02:09 AM UTC
I can pass that idea on to Sasha. Meanwhile, without having to pay for expensive resin African American heads or figures, some of the very old Monogram figures had heads that work.