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Armor/AFV: Early Armor
WWI and other early tanks and armored cars.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Mannschaftstransportwagen Magirus ARW
Neonik
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St. Petersburg, Russia
Joined: July 19, 2011
KitMaker: 325 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 - 06:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text

What you could do is to take a photo of the kit hull from the same angles as the original photos and compare the rounding of the hull.
I get the impression that the kit hull is fairly accurate in shape but it is difficult to compare when the angles and the lighting is so different ...
/ Robin



Tomorrow I will do a comparasion photos. I will add them here.
Neonik
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St. Petersburg, Russia
Joined: July 19, 2011
KitMaker: 325 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 - 11:00 PM UTC
Indeed. Now I see the difference clearly.
Welding is very boring process. I have started it. It seems to me I will need all next week to complete this work. Or maybe more.











RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
KITMAKER NETWORK
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Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 - 11:20 PM UTC
To my eyes the rounding between the top and the sides of the hull look good.
The corners that you have marked could possibly be a little to sharp on the kit. Those should be possible to sand down to make them softer/rounder, there should be enough resin there
I also get the impression that the rear edge of the wheel arch is almost a horizontal straight line on the real ARW but on the kit it curves slightly downwards to form sort of a point.
/ Robin
Neonik
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St. Petersburg, Russia
Joined: July 19, 2011
KitMaker: 325 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 - 11:52 PM UTC

Quoted Text

To my eyes the rounding between the top and the sides of the hull look good.
The corners that you have marked could possibly be a little to sharp on the kit. Those should be possible to sand down to make them softer/rounder, there should be enough resin there
I also get the impression that the rear edge of the wheel arch is almost a horizontal straight line on the real ARW but on the kit it curves slightly downwards to form sort of a point.
/ Robin



Yes. I think nothing critical. I will try to get corners rounder after I finish all works with welds. Indeed there are much enough resin there. If i fail I will use epoxy putty.

I have either impression about wheels arch. But I think I won't do anything about it. This work will be too complicated.
Paulinsibculo
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Overijssel, Netherlands
Joined: July 01, 2010
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Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 - 11:57 PM UTC
Artyom,

Beautiful build you share with us. Thanks.

Which supplier you took for these welds?
Neonik
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St. Petersburg, Russia
Joined: July 19, 2011
KitMaker: 325 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 - 12:04 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Artyom,

Beautiful build you share with us. Thanks.

Which supplier you took for these welds?



Hello,Paul! Thank you! Very good that the vehicle is interesting for modellers

I often use Tamiya epoxy putty (quick type).
HermannB
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Bayern, Germany
Joined: October 14, 2008
KitMaker: 3,715 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 - 01:49 AM UTC
If this is a Mannschaftstransportwagen or APC, I wonder how the dismounts get in and out?
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
KITMAKER NETWORK
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Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 - 02:51 AM UTC

Quoted Text

If this is a Mannschaftstransportwagen or APC, I wonder how the dismounts get in and out?



Well, during those years the names used for various vehicles did not necessarily describe the real purpose of the vehicle.

Grosstraktor (to pull heavy stuff or maybe for very big farms),
Leichttraktor (to pull light equipment, maybe for airfields or for smaller farms),
Mannschaftstransportwagen (probably a new type of truck for transporting troops),
Battalionsführerwagen (some kind of staff car with space for more radios, probably somewhere in between a large PKW and a light LKW, definitely smaller than Montys armoured truck).

Later there were other euphemisms as well, such as "Arbeit macht frei" (my experience is that it usually makes sweat ...)

/ Robin
Neonik
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St. Petersburg, Russia
Joined: July 19, 2011
KitMaker: 325 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 - 11:40 PM UTC
By the way. Robin, what do you think was the turret box welded of it was casted with hull?
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
KITMAKER NETWORK
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Stockholm, Sweden
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Posted: Thursday, August 15, 2019 - 12:49 AM UTC
hmmmmmmmmmmm
going off on a wild tour into the dark forests of the Guessing Country ..............

1. This was a prototype.
2. I read somewhere that the specified weight limit was to be 7.5 tons and the armour was specified as 13.5 mm
3. The rims were cast from some kind of light metal alloy to keep the weight down.

Casting something large is one thing, casting something large and with thin walls, 13.5 mm thick sides of a casting that is somewhere around 5.5 meters long is more difficult.

My guess is that the hull was not cast at all except maybe for small pieces. If I were to build such a prototype I would use steel plates. For the full scale production it might be better to use casting but considering the shapes of the hull it could still be easier to shape steel plates and weld them together. Maybe it was even a simple armoured box with rounded ends and the fancy shapes over the wheels was only thin sheet metal.
The welds you have made under the wheel arches:

would fit the armoured box theory. The flat sides is the armoured box and the rounded shapes on the outside are there to increase volume to try and meet the original requirement that the ARW should float ...
Maybe you have already seen this page:
http://aviarmor.net/tww2/armored_cars/germany/arw.htm


The answer to your question: My guess is that almost the whole thing was welded. Don't know what I should say about the turret though ...
/ Robin
C_JACQUEMONT
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Loire-Atlantique, France
Joined: October 09, 2004
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Posted: Friday, August 16, 2019 - 12:03 AM UTC
Really nice detailing work, built that kit myself, but straight from the box.
Neonik
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St. Petersburg, Russia
Joined: July 19, 2011
KitMaker: 325 posts
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Posted: Friday, August 16, 2019 - 01:04 AM UTC

Quoted Text

hmmmmmmmmmmm
going off on a wild tour into the dark forests of the Guessing Country ..............

1. This was a prototype.
2. I read somewhere that the specified weight limit was to be 7.5 tons and the armour was specified as 13.5 mm
3. The rims were cast from some kind of light metal alloy to keep the weight down.

Casting something large is one thing, casting something large and with thin walls, 13.5 mm thick sides of a casting that is somewhere around 5.5 meters long is more difficult.

My guess is that the hull was not cast at all except maybe for small pieces. If I were to build such a prototype I would use steel plates. For the full scale production it might be better to use casting but considering the shapes of the hull it could still be easier to shape steel plates and weld them together. Maybe it was even a simple armoured box with rounded ends and the fancy shapes over the wheels was only thin sheet metal.
The welds you have made under the wheel arches:

would fit the armoured box theory. The flat sides is the armoured box and the rounded shapes on the outside are there to increase volume to try and meet the original requirement that the ARW should float ...
Maybe you have already seen this page:
http://aviarmor.net/tww2/armored_cars/germany/arw.htm


The answer to your question: My guess is that almost the whole thing was welded. Don't know what I should say about the turret though ...
/ Robin



Thank you Robin for detailed aswer. I tend to agree with all your conclusions. For me it is much more easier to to do all these welds on a model.It will need time, of course. I have done only about 30% or less. Seems to me that turret is overall welded too. Much work ahead. But I have an expirience from former projects.
Neonik
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St. Petersburg, Russia
Joined: July 19, 2011
KitMaker: 325 posts
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Posted: Friday, August 16, 2019 - 01:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Really nice detailing work, built that kit myself, but straight from the box.


Greetings, Christophe! Sometimes building OOTB is a better way. Sometimes I regret getting into such "resin adventure"
Neonik
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St. Petersburg, Russia
Joined: July 19, 2011
KitMaker: 325 posts
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Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 - 12:04 AM UTC
Greeting! I am on a half way with welds. Bottom of arches , turret box ,front and rear parts are ready. Now I have to weld sides. I have begun and I am satisfied with the results. It was long way to do it. Hard work with plastic , welds , special grooves for welds. Sorry for bad photos. I will make good ones when welds be ready.








RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
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Stockholm, Sweden
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Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 - 12:16 AM UTC
Those welds look very realistic
Neonik
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St. Petersburg, Russia
Joined: July 19, 2011
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Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 - 12:55 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Those welds look very realistic


Thank you,Robin! Do my best.
Dioramartin
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New South Wales, Australia
Joined: May 04, 2016
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Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 - 11:44 PM UTC
I admire your modesty almost as much as your skills – those weld-seams are superb, along with everything else you have done so far
Neonik
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St. Petersburg, Russia
Joined: July 19, 2011
KitMaker: 325 posts
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Posted: Sunday, August 25, 2019 - 08:53 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I admire your modesty almost as much as your skills – those weld-seams are superb, along with everything else you have done so far


Thank you Tim! You are too kind! Modesty is something what makes us stronger and skills better.I hope next week I will finish working with welds on hull. Remember that turret is welded too.
Neonik
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St. Petersburg, Russia
Joined: July 19, 2011
KitMaker: 325 posts
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Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2019 - 01:49 AM UTC
Hello friends! The work with hull welding has come to an end. I satisfied with the result.












Next stage - wheels. They are terrible! Every wheels consist of two parts. And it is not a funny story to put them together because parts curves. I have seen the reception on Gleb Vasilliev's Magirus. He has put on some plastic between two parts. I've decided to do the same.

And I see this insert in the center of the wheel on photos. Take a look.







I still need to fill the gaps by putty.










Neonik
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St. Petersburg, Russia
Joined: July 19, 2011
KitMaker: 325 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 - 02:18 AM UTC
Exhaust pipe and it's fixators. It is not a final variant. Resin,putty,brass,copper. I have drilled 1,5 mm wire to make a pipe. That was crazy :smiling5:























davcon5
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United States
Joined: November 09, 2008
KitMaker: 44 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 - 04:05 AM UTC
That's one ugly vehicle, and it doesn't appeal to me at all, but I must say the kit looks like one superb job of casting.
Neonik
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St. Petersburg, Russia
Joined: July 19, 2011
KitMaker: 325 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 - 06:33 AM UTC

Quoted Text

That's one ugly vehicle, and it doesn't appeal to me at all, but I must say the kit looks like one superb job of casting.



I think it has it is own beauty but my expectations about this kit were not fulfilled.
SpeedyJ
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Bangkok, Thailand / ไทย
Joined: September 17, 2013
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Posted: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 - 04:32 PM UTC
For that time period the vehicle was IMHO years ahead as we speak of design.
I new the Magirus design and it's appearance in real time. Very special and very different. I like it.

Kind regards,

Robert Jan
Neonik
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St. Petersburg, Russia
Joined: July 19, 2011
KitMaker: 325 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 - 11:57 PM UTC

Quoted Text

For that time period the vehicle was IMHO years ahead as we speak of design.
I new the Magirus design and it's appearance in real time. Very special and very different. I like it.

Kind regards,

Robert Jan



Indeed. Design was too modern and production was too complicated.
Neonik
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St. Petersburg, Russia
Joined: July 19, 2011
KitMaker: 325 posts
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Posted: Friday, September 27, 2019 - 01:40 AM UTC
Greetings to all! At last hull is ready and all parts on their places. I am happy about it because I am a little bit tired with this kit. Unfortunately I am not happy with the result. Wheels are really bad. I have tried to do my best but......