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General Aircraft: Tips & Techniques
Discussions on specific A/C building techniques.
peeling acrylic paint
blaster76
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Texas, United States
Joined: September 15, 2002
KitMaker: 8,985 posts
AeroScale: 137 posts
Posted: Monday, September 23, 2019 - 11:04 AM UTC
Was painting my BF109E...Galland. Had laid down the gruviolet 2 days ago( airbrushed). Painting the nose and tail with yellow used blue painters tape to mask. After the Tamiya yellow had dried began removing the tape to set up next color. Horrified to see large patches of the grey and underside blue had peeled off. Used Testors acrylics on these. Went ahead and laid the graugrun...a bit more pulled up with tape removal. After that dried I hit it with rattlecan dullcoat. Will give it a bit then retape over the graugrun and see if I dont lose any of it to the tape. Never had this problem ever with enamel...sigh those are getting impossible to find anymore.

So anyone have any other method that may keep my paint down on surface?
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,328 posts
AeroScale: 180 posts
Posted: Monday, September 23, 2019 - 08:45 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Was painting my BF109E...Galland. Had laid down the gruviolet 2 days ago( airbrushed). Painting the nose and tail with yellow used blue painters tape to mask. After the Tamiya yellow had dried began removing the tape to set up next color. Horrified to see large patches of the grey and underside blue had peeled off. Used Testors acrylics on these. Went ahead and laid the graugrun...a bit more pulled up with tape removal. After that dried I hit it with rattlecan dullcoat. Will give it a bit then retape over the graugrun and see if I dont lose any of it to the tape. Never had this problem ever with enamel...sigh those are getting impossible to find anymore.

So anyone have any other method that may keep my paint down on surface?



Hi, Steve!

Did you happen to wipe down ALL surfaces of your Bf.109 with Isopropyl Alcohol BEFORE PRIMING and painting..? Some acrylics just don't like "finger oils" of any kind... Wear surgical gloves DURING and AFTER your "alcohol wipe-down", when handling your model...

Of course, your paint MIGHT have something wrong with it, too; improperly stirred, shaken or mixed, old paint, wrong thinners- It could be any number of things. It could ALSO be the Blue Masking Tape had TOO MUCH "TACK" for your paint to handle. Try "Kabuki"-type "low tack" tape, such as TAMIYA's...

Personally, I don't care much for acrylics, at all. I much prefer my smelly, toxic old ENAMELS...

Not being sarcastic or derisive; just asking...

VR, Dennis
Namabiiru
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
#399
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Rhode Island, United States
Joined: March 05, 2014
KitMaker: 2,799 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 23, 2019 - 11:22 PM UTC
Steve,
I have found that even the blue painters tape can be too tacky for acrylics. Using an automotive primer as the first coat can help some, but the most effective method I have found to keep tape from pulling up acrylics is to stick the tape to my jeans before I apply it to the model. This reduces the tackiness enough to keep it from peeling the paint. It's important to make sure the existing paint layer is thoroughly cured so lint doesn't get embedded, and you also have to be especially careful not to lay down too thick a coat, which will bleed under the tape (but you already knew that part, I'm sure).

russamotto
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Utah, United States
Joined: December 14, 2007
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Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - 01:58 AM UTC
I have also had issues with the Testors Model Master acrylics coming off with tape and quite a few others have had the same issues. I have also had blue painters tape leave residue on other paints, almost like glitter. Tamiya yellow tape hasn't caused problems with the MM acrylic for me. Green Frog tape did the same thing. I recently found a purple 3M tape for delicate surfaces but haven't tried it yet.

Previous discussions stated that the MM acrylic doesn't have much adhesion to plastic and needs a good primer, like Mark said. I don't use it too often unless it is a freehand pattern that doesn't need masking or I can use putty, or it will be a final coat.
blaster76
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Texas, United States
Joined: September 15, 2002
KitMaker: 8,985 posts
AeroScale: 137 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - 03:15 AM UTC
Thank ya'll for your input. I think it is too much tack. Will look to getting the Tamiya brand. Also lay down a primer seems to be in order as well
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,328 posts
AeroScale: 180 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - 03:22 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Steve,
I have found that even the blue painters tape can be too tacky for acrylics. Using an automotive primer as the first coat can help some, but the most effective method I have found to keep tape from pulling up acrylics is to stick the tape to my jeans before I apply it to the model. This reduces the tackiness enough to keep it from peeling the paint. It's important to make sure the existing paint layer is thoroughly cured so lint doesn't get embedded, and you also have to be especially careful not to lay down too thick a coat, which will bleed under the tape (but you already knew that part, I'm sure).




Hi, Mark!

Not to be a wise guy, but what do you do about the fuzz that the tape picks up from your jeans' fabric..? I tried that many years ago when I was in my early teens. I don't particularly care for fuzz being trapped under my "secondary/un-masked" painted surfaces.

Long ago, I always used TESTORS and PACTRA "Flats", and when TESTORS Model Master Enamels came long, I used them. Later, I used TESTORS Model Master II Enamels, and ever since, I've used these. I like using the TAMIYA-type "Kabuki-tape"; I have no problems. This type of tape is "low tack", and it doesn't leave a residue. It's not cheap, but it works...

VR, Dennis
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,294 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - 03:39 AM UTC

You know, a much cheaper alternative to Tamiya tape is to go to Hobby Lobby and buy Kabuki tape in the paper section. It has patterns-- but it's the same tape as Tamiya. A three pack is about half the cost of Tamiya tape. I particualarly like the black stripe pattern because I can use it to line up the tape. I still use Tamiya for some projects, because it comes in various widths, but for general use, Kabuki tape is fine. Another trope I use is 3M "Post It" toe tape which you can buy at Office Depot-- its more expensive, but extremely low tack.
VR, Russ
chrism
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United States
Joined: January 05, 2012
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Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - 07:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I have also had issues with the Testors Model Master acrylics coming off with tape and quite a few others have had the same issues. I have also had blue painters tape leave residue on other paints, almost like glitter. Tamiya yellow tape hasn't caused problems with the MM acrylic for me. Green Frog tape did the same thing. I recently found a purple 3M tape for delicate surfaces but haven't tried it yet.

Previous discussions stated that the MM acrylic doesn't have much adhesion to plastic and needs a good primer, like Mark said. I don't use it too often unless it is a freehand pattern that doesn't need masking or I can use putty, or it will be a final coat.



I also have had trouble with Acryl lifting. I had good success with Vallejo paints that don't lift when masked. I'll be on the look out for the purple tape!
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,328 posts
AeroScale: 180 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - 01:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text


You know, a much cheaper alternative to Tamiya tape is to go to Hobby Lobby and buy Kabuki tape in the paper section. It has patterns-- but it's the same tape as Tamiya. A three pack is about half the cost of Tamiya tape. I particualarly like the black stripe pattern because I can use it to line up the tape. I still use Tamiya for some projects, because it comes in various widths, but for general use, Kabuki tape is fine. Another trope I use is 3M "Post It" toe tape which you can buy at Office Depot-- its more expensive, but extremely low tack.
VR, Russ



Hi, All!

Hmmm. I'm going by a "HOBBY LOBBY" store, down in the "Tri-Cities Area", today. Think I'll pick up some Kabuki Tape while I'm down there, in lieu of buying more Kabuki Tape with a TAMIYA logo on the package...

VR, Dennis

PS- I've used a lot of the 3M Post Its in my time- I've found that buying a 5-pack of the "cheapie"-stuff at any "Dollar Store" works just as well...
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,294 posts
AeroScale: 759 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - 04:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


You know, a much cheaper alternative to Tamiya tape is to go to Hobby Lobby and buy Kabuki tape in the paper section. It has patterns-- but it's the same tape as Tamiya. A three pack is about half the cost of Tamiya tape. I particualarly like the black stripe pattern because I can use it to line up the tape. I still use Tamiya for some projects, because it comes in various widths, but for general use, Kabuki tape is fine. Another trope I use is 3M "Post It" toe tape which you can buy at Office Depot-- its more expensive, but extremely low tack.
VR, Russ



Hi, All!

Hmmm. I'm going by a "HOBBY LOBBY" store, down in the "Tri-Cities Area", today. Think I'll pick up some Kabuki Tape while I'm down there, in lieu of buying more Kabuki Tape with a TAMIYA logo on the package...

VR, Dennis

PS- I've used a lot of the 3M Post Its in my time- I've found that buying a 5-pack of the "cheapie"-stuff at any "Dollar Store" works just as well...



I can't believe all the typos I made in my previous post-- I was using my I-phone while relaxing in my back yard-- guess the combination of fresh air, fat fingers and a little screen was too much for me! Just to make a couple of clarifications-- the Kabuki tape from Hobby Lobby can be found in the paper goods section, and is found in various color printed patterns-- geometric designs and stripes--but it only comes in one width. And the 3M "Post it" tape I was talking about is actually a roll of tape-- not the "post it notes". The tape can be cut to any lengthy or width you need, but, it doesn't have much adhesive at all, so it won't behave like regular tape--and doesn't do well on compound curves. Hope this helps. And a note for Dennis-- the reason I was relaxing in my back yard was I've been working on the decal artwork for Dijibootie II, which is down to individual pixels now, and I needed a break!
VR, Russ
Namabiiru
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
#399
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Rhode Island, United States
Joined: March 05, 2014
KitMaker: 2,799 posts
AeroScale: 306 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - 06:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Steve,
I have found that even the blue painters tape can be too tacky for acrylics. Using an automotive primer as the first coat can help some, but the most effective method I have found to keep tape from pulling up acrylics is to stick the tape to my jeans before I apply it to the model. This reduces the tackiness enough to keep it from peeling the paint. It's important to make sure the existing paint layer is thoroughly cured so lint doesn't get embedded, and you also have to be especially careful not to lay down too thick a coat, which will bleed under the tape (but you already knew that part, I'm sure).




Hi, Mark!

Not to be a wise guy, but what do you do about the fuzz that the tape picks up from your jeans' fabric..? I tried that many years ago when I was in my early teens. I don't particularly care for fuzz being trapped under my "secondary/un-masked" painted surfaces.

Long ago, I always used TESTORS and PACTRA "Flats", and when TESTORS Model Master Enamels came long, I used them. Later, I used TESTORS Model Master II Enamels, and ever since, I've used these. I like using the TAMIYA-type "Kabuki-tape"; I have no problems. This type of tape is "low tack", and it doesn't leave a residue. It's not cheap, but it works...

VR, Dennis



Dennis, that's the point of ensuring the previous coat is completely cured. That way the base coat doesn't run the risk of being tackier than the tape. I have never had an issue with fuzz being left behind after the tape is removed.

M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,328 posts
AeroScale: 180 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 26, 2019 - 12:13 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Steve,
I have found that even the blue painters tape can be too tacky for acrylics. Using an automotive primer as the first coat can help some, but the most effective method I have found to keep tape from pulling up acrylics is to stick the tape to my jeans before I apply it to the model. This reduces the tackiness enough to keep it from peeling the paint. It's important to make sure the existing paint layer is thoroughly cured so lint doesn't get embedded, and you also have to be especially careful not to lay down too thick a coat, which will bleed under the tape (but you already knew that part, I'm sure).




Hi, Mark!

Not to be a wise guy, but what do you do about the fuzz that the tape picks up from your jeans' fabric..? I tried that many years ago when I was in my early teens. I don't particularly care for fuzz being trapped under my "secondary/un-masked" painted surfaces.

Long ago, I always used TESTORS and PACTRA "Flats", and when TESTORS Model Master Enamels came long, I used them. Later, I used TESTORS Model Master II Enamels, and ever since, I've used these. I like using the TAMIYA-type "Kabuki-tape"; I have no problems. This type of tape is "low tack", and it doesn't leave a residue. It's not cheap, but it works...

VR, Dennis



Dennis, that's the point of ensuring the previous coat is completely cured. That way the base coat doesn't run the risk of being tackier than the tape. I have never had an issue with fuzz being left behind after the tape is removed.




Maybe you misunderstood my question. Any "adhesive" tape is tacky, by definition. No matter how pristine your jeans may be, or may have been, the "tack" of the tape will always lift even a minute amount of "fuzz" off your jeans. Static electricity MAY make some of this fuzz adhere to your previously painted surface, even after it has cured for a hundred years. (I'm joking, not being sarcastic)

It was just a simple question, and was not meant to be something to have a contentious debate, over. I was just wondering what you do to keep the "fuzz" off your painted surfaces. For example, I like to wipe down my unpainted surfaces with isopropyl alcohol. I then lay my primer(s) down. After the primer(s) have completely dried, I give the surfaces another wipe-down with the iso. Then I shoot my primary color(s) and wait for it/them to dry. (I cover my work with Rubbermaid or Tupperware containers, in order to keep them as dust-free as possible) Then, well, I'm sure that you're familiar with all of the rest of the painting processes, so I don't really need to go into a lot of detail, there.

I like to use my TESTORS Model Master II Enamels, simply because they've never given me any problems with "lifting", etc, when using my various masking/painting methods. I always wait for two to three days before I mask for "hard-edge" demarcation lines, and I generally do the same for the "soft-edge"-type camos. Before I mask, I give my surfaces another "wipe-down'... This may seem like "overkill", but doing this has always served me in good stead...

Mainly, I just wondered how you dealt with "fuzz", that's all. This is also why I like to use the "Kabuki"-type low-tack tapes...

VR, Dennis
Namabiiru
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
#399
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Rhode Island, United States
Joined: March 05, 2014
KitMaker: 2,799 posts
AeroScale: 306 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 26, 2019 - 11:19 PM UTC
Dennis,
No worries. I didn't take it negatively so I apologize if my response came across that way. You are correct about the fuzz--I think that's actually part of the 'magic' of reducing the tackiness--but I have never run into an issue with the tape leaving any fuzz behind.