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Armor/AFV: British Armor
Discuss all types of British Armor of all eras.
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Dieppe Churchill Color
long_tom
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Illinois, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 - 03:01 AM UTC
I have the kit, which describes the tank color as "khaki". I'm sure that's an error, so what is the proper color?
tangodown
#494
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New Brunswick, Canada
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Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 - 03:32 AM UTC
SCC No-2 Brown
There are several "recipes" online and a google search should locate them for you. My personal choice is AK.
long_tom
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Illinois, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 - 03:34 AM UTC
As in the dark mid-war brown? Thanks!
pod3105
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Waterford, Ireland
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Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 - 04:31 AM UTC

Quoted Text

SCC No-2 Brown
There are several "recipes" online and a google search should locate them for you. My personal choice is AK.



The is some concern online that this is too brown. SCC2 I beleive according to Mr Starmers chips has a green tinge to it which doesn't seem to be the case for the Real Colour. What is it like out of the jar?
long_tom
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Illinois, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 - 12:03 PM UTC
The Osprey Churchill book mentioned a Dieppe raid tank as Middle Bronze Green, but sometimes the books goof too. I know that 1942 was the year Britain had to temporarily use brown for armor color.
petbat
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Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - 12:15 AM UTC
This was at the time vehicles were transitioning from Khaki Green 3 to SCC2. There are no definable accounts around what colour vehicles were, though some claim family members that were there or were in the Canadian Army at the time states Khaki Green. Records also seem to indicate the Canadians didn't switch colours until a little later than the British.

It is quite likely the Churchills were Khaki Green but with a remote possibly the later Mk 3 versions may have been SCC2. There are pics of Churchills on the beaches but conjecture is they are colourised.

Pick your own type of poison and mix accordingly. As per Mike Starmer's recipes:

Nobels Khaki Green No.3:
New mix is 8 pts XF62 + 3 pts XF59 + 1 pt XF68. This last is necessary due to the loss of red from the original dark XF62.


SCC No.2 Brown Tamiya

Mix: 5pts XF68 + 4pts XF3 + 1pt XF1. The result is just a fraction strong on the red so go careful and do not overdo the black as even a slight touch too much darkens the result a great deal. Should be OK with some medium grey added for scale effect.

As an aside, an interesting read:
https://alliedarmour1940.wordpress.com/2017/07/29/dieppe-1942/
Biggles2
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Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - 04:14 AM UTC
As usual, are these mixes for any particular scale...1/1; 1/35; etc.? Or do they have to be faded accordingly (with Dark Yellow?) for appropriate scale effect?
petbat
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Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - 09:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text

As usual, are these mixes for any particular scale...1/1; 1/35; etc.? Or do they have to be faded accordingly (with Dark Yellow?) for appropriate scale effect?



1:1 scale - ala SCC2 comments:
"Should be OK with some medium grey added for scale effect."
recceboy
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Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - 03:36 PM UTC
Not SCC 2, as the Calgary Tank Regiment received a lot new tanks prior to the operation, which had gone through a rebuild program, they would have been painted in Khaki Green No. 3 , as seen in WW2 German artiest water colour prints post raid. Same with markings and the variation in marking colours , as new tanks had fresh markings.

Anthony
LeoCmdr
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Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, November 14, 2019 - 09:19 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Not SCC 2, as the Calgary Tank Regiment received a lot new tanks prior to the operation, which had gone through a rebuild program, they would have been painted in Khaki Green No. 3 , as seen in WW2 German artiest water colour prints post raid. Same with markings and the variation in marking colours , as new tanks had fresh markings.

Anthony



I agree with Anthony...the German colour documentation of the tanks would likely be the most historically accurate reference. You could go the safe route with SCC No-2 Brown but I don't think it would be accurate.

I live 10 minutes away from the King's Own Calgary Regimental Museum...of course known as The Calgary Regiment (Tanks) during WWII. Lots of great Dieppe memorabilia in the museum. There used to be some Dieppe veterans that would provide tours of the museum in the late 80s/early 90s but they have passed on. It was amazing hearing their stories of the landings and subsequent POW experiences.

Ironically those German photos of the tanks and other vehicles on the beach and the captured troops after the invasion backfired on the Germans as a propaganda tool as it allowed Allied forces to very quickly do damage and casualty assessments in order to corroborate numbers of troops who survived and why the tanks failed to get off the beach during landings.
Halbcl2
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Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, November 14, 2019 - 01:25 PM UTC
This anecdote is not relevant to colours but is Dieppe related. When I was still in practice I had a patient who was a Canuck sergeant at Dieppe. He told how his unit got somewhere inland from the beach but pinned down. A British Lt got to them and told him they were evacuating and to get his men back to the beach. He told the Lt "The beach?! Every f'ing German in France is heading to the beach!" He took his boys back on a detour away from the beach, eventually got picked up by the RN and survived. But never saw the Brit Lt again.
Biggles2
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Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Saturday, November 16, 2019 - 04:53 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Not SCC 2, as the Calgary Tank Regiment received a lot new tanks prior to the operation, which had gone through a rebuild program, they would have been painted in Khaki Green No. 3 , as seen in WW2 German artiest water colour prints post raid. Same with markings and the variation in marking colours , as new tanks had fresh markings.

Anthony


There is this photo of a Valentine in, I suppose, Khaki Green, but the photo is, admittedly colorized, and there appears to be too much green overall:
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/photos/world-war-ii-in-50-color-photos/ss-AAGsDz4?li=AAggNb9#image=2
chauvel
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Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Saturday, November 16, 2019 - 02:13 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Not SCC 2, as the Calgary Tank Regiment received a lot new tanks prior to the operation, which had gone through a rebuild program, they would have been painted in Khaki Green No. 3 , as seen in WW2 German artiest water colour prints post raid. Same with markings and the variation in marking colours , as new tanks had fresh markings.

Anthony


There is this photo of a Valentine in, I suppose, Khaki Green, but the photo is, admittedly colorized, and there appears to be too much green overall:
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/photos/world-war-ii-in-50-color-photos/ss-AAGsDz4?li=AAggNb9#image=2


Hmmm not necessarily. Early war camo scheme was G4 patches over G3 base
27-1025
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North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Sunday, November 17, 2019 - 11:30 AM UTC
Just for the purposes of discussion, this is my Dieppe Churchill painted with the Mr. Starmer SCC No2 formula for Tamiya. Truth be told I'm inclined to repaint it because this color is hideous to look at. Maybe lighten it a bit for scale effect.





chauvel
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Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Sunday, November 17, 2019 - 02:15 PM UTC
I think it looks pretty damn good. Pretty close to how they looked
27-1025
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North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Sunday, November 17, 2019 - 02:33 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I think it looks pretty damn good. Pretty close to how they looked


Thanks, thatís what I was afraid of. Maybe a bit of weathering
recceboy
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Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Tuesday, November 19, 2019 - 04:38 PM UTC
Model looks great, but they were never SCC 2, if you plan on repainting the kit , Khaki Green No 3 would be the correct paint colour that they were painted in.

tankmodeler
#417
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Monday, November 25, 2019 - 09:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Truth be told I'm inclined to repaint it because this color is hideous to look at.


It wasn't called "fresh dogsh!t brown" because it was aesthetically pleasing...

Paul
27-1025
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North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Monday, November 25, 2019 - 05:33 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Model looks great, but they were never SCC 2, if you plan on repainting the kit , Khaki Green No 3 would be the correct paint colour that they were painted in.




Thanks!! Thatís actually great news and I just bought a bottle of AK Khaki Green No 3 for my Canadian Ram build.