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Armor/AFV
For all ground-operating modelling subjects.
1/35 Atomic Annie Trumpeter
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,286 posts
AeroScale: 758 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 08:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


I studied the M165 during my Prefix-5 nuclear targeting days. Sadly, it’s historical impact is often overshadowed by later developments,



Hmmm...Like the SADM? I was on a Green Light team. I'm all too familiar with that archaic piece of technology. They still have one in Albuquerque at the Atomic Museum.



Believe it or not, I still have a SADM employment FM in my collection. The Prefix-5 course was taught to all Chemical Officers at Ft. McClellan. You had to calculate CEPs, Yields and damage from all the weapons in the inventory, including the obsolete ones. Before the Army dumped them, I served as a targeting Officer in two assignments. Later, I worked as a Nuke damage assessment officer in a joint position in an Air Force assignment. Utter madness .
VR, Russ
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,286 posts
AeroScale: 758 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 08:22 AM UTC
Hmmm...I was just looking at the CAD “build-up-shots” in that Ebay posting. Drooling I think, until I noticed the M65 carriage close-ups. The CAD drawings look suspiciously like the ones from the Dragon kit, including the molded on firing platforms. The Ebay posting shows the manufacturer is out of Macao. But I think the Ebay ad is using some of the CAD shots of the Dragon kit—I hope that’s all, because if you’re going to drop $259 for this kit, you sure don’t want molded on platforms. That’s one of the biggest errors in the Dragon kit— you can’t display the weapon in firing order as the platforms are all molded up. This new kit does have some PE diagrams which appear to be gratings for the platforms though. The plot thickens....here’s the ad, look for yourself:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/202884174100

VR, Russ
Removed by original poster on 02/05/20 - 21:22:01 (GMT).
Headhunter506
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New York, United States
Joined: December 01, 2007
KitMaker: 1,544 posts
AeroScale: 45 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 09:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text



Hmmm...Like the SADM? I was on a Green Light team.



When were you assigned, before '89?
18Bravo
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 6,744 posts
AeroScale: 98 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 09:31 AM UTC
1983. First course I attended after graduating SFQC.
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
KITMAKER NETWORK
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Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 5,889 posts
AeroScale: 18 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 09:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hmmm...I was just looking at the CAD “build-up-shots” in that Ebay posting. Drooling I think, until I noticed the M65 carriage close-ups. The CAD drawings look suspiciously like the ones from the Dragon kit, including the molded on firing platforms. The Ebay posting shows the manufacturer is out of Macao. But I think the Ebay ad is using some of the CAD shots of the Dragon kit—I hope that’s all, because if you’re going to drop $259 for this kit, you sure don’t want molded on platforms. That’s one of the biggest errors in the Dragon kit— you can’t display the weapon in firing order as the platforms are all molded up. This new kit does have some PE diagrams which appear to be gratings for the platforms though. The plot thickens....here’s the ad, look for yourself:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/202884174100

VR, Russ







I get the impression that the tricky bit will be to show them folded for transport. Some plastic surgery needed I think
/ Robin
ironhull
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Venezia, Italy
Joined: November 23, 2013
KitMaker: 125 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 09:55 AM UTC
Lookin at my TMs collection I found this.































18Bravo
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 6,744 posts
AeroScale: 98 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 09:55 AM UTC
Simple surgery. Parts G32 and G23 swing inward to lie flat against the side bulkhead of the carrier.
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
KITMAKER NETWORK
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 5,889 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 10:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Simple surgery. Parts G32 and G23 swing inward to lie flat against the side bulkhead of the carrier.



The question is how much the hinges of those parts will need to be modified.
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
KITMAKER NETWORK
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 5,889 posts
AeroScale: 18 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 10:01 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Lookin at my TMs collection I found this.






Scans of that manual will be appreciated by many of us.
/ Robin
18Bravo
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 6,744 posts
AeroScale: 98 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 10:10 AM UTC
Neither I nor at least five others will have any problems at all...

Kevlar06
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,286 posts
AeroScale: 758 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 10:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Hmmm...I was just looking at the CAD “build-up-shots” in that Ebay posting. Drooling I think, until I noticed the M65 carriage close-ups. The CAD drawings look suspiciously like the ones from the Dragon kit, including the molded on firing platforms. The Ebay posting shows the manufacturer is out of Macao. But I think the Ebay ad is using some of the CAD shots of the Dragon kit—I hope that’s all, because if you’re going to drop $259 for this kit, you sure don’t want molded on platforms. That’s one of the biggest errors in the Dragon kit— you can’t display the weapon in firing order as the platforms are all molded up. This new kit does have some PE diagrams which appear to be gratings for the platforms though. The plot thickens....here’s the ad, look for yourself:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/202884174100

VR, Russ







I get the impression that the tricky bit will be to show them folded for transport. Some plastic surgery needed I think
/ Robin


Robin, yes, those, but if you look at the supposed “built up” model on the Ebay offering, they look exactly like the molded on platforms of the Dragon kit. I think the Ebay offering is using the Dragon kit for the “built up” photos. Could be wrong, I’ll have to dig out my Dragon kit to compare for sure. Of course, they could be CAD test shots too, which lack detail sometimes.
VR, Russ
Headhunter506
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New York, United States
Joined: December 01, 2007
KitMaker: 1,544 posts
AeroScale: 45 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 10:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hmmm...I was just looking at the CAD “build-up-shots” in that Ebay posting. Drooling I think, until I noticed the M65 carriage close-ups. The CAD drawings look suspiciously like the ones from the Dragon kit, including the molded on firing platforms. The Ebay posting shows the manufacturer is out of Macao. But I think the Ebay ad is using some of the CAD shots of the Dragon kit—I hope that’s all, because if you’re going to drop $259 for this kit, you sure don’t want molded on platforms. That’s one of the biggest errors in the Dragon kit— you can’t display the weapon in firing order as the platforms are all molded up. This new kit does have some PE diagrams which appear to be gratings for the platforms though. The plot thickens....here’s the ad, look for yourself:



No mystery or other dramatic devices here. ilovekit, Easy Model, Hobby Boss and Trumpeter Wa San Development Macau Limited are all part of the Trumpeter empire. Wa San is a "playthings, toys, gifts, hobby products importer and distributor".

Trumpeter Wa San Development (Macau) Co. Ltd.
Kevlar06
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,286 posts
AeroScale: 758 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 10:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Neither I nor at least five others will have any problems at all...




Robert, the test shots of the kit in the Ebay offering look like they show all the platforms molded to the side of the carriage— if in fact those are the test shots. That’s what I’m trying to say here— there’s just something a little off about the Ebay offering posted above, out of California, with one kit sold already and more than 10 in stock. Looks like that offering may be using shots of the Dragon kit maybe? I’ll have to dig mine out and compare.
VR, Russ
Kevlar06
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,286 posts
AeroScale: 758 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 10:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Hmmm...I was just looking at the CAD “build-up-shots” in that Ebay posting. Drooling I think, until I noticed the M65 carriage close-ups. The CAD drawings look suspiciously like the ones from the Dragon kit, including the molded on firing platforms. The Ebay posting shows the manufacturer is out of Macao. But I think the Ebay ad is using some of the CAD shots of the Dragon kit—I hope that’s all, because if you’re going to drop $259 for this kit, you sure don’t want molded on platforms. That’s one of the biggest errors in the Dragon kit— you can’t display the weapon in firing order as the platforms are all molded up. This new kit does have some PE diagrams which appear to be gratings for the platforms though. The plot thickens....here’s the ad, look for yourself:



No mystery or other dramatic devices here. ilovekit, Easy Model, Hobby Boss and Trumpeter Wa San Development Macau Limited are all part of the Trumpeter empire. Wa San is a "playthings, toys, gifts, hobby products importer and distributor".

Trumpeter Wa San Development (Macau) Co. Ltd.



Yes, I don’t have a problem with this. It’s the Ebay offering above that just seems a little off to me. Look at the built up “test shots”— looks more like the Dragon kit to me. I’m not saying it’s “fishy” I’m just saying the “build up test shots” don’t live up to the Scalemate posted instructions in the Ebay offering.
VR, Russ
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
KITMAKER NETWORK
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Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 5,889 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 11:03 AM UTC
Someone could be selling kits that have not been produced yet. The delivery will drag on forever, buyers will start complaining about delivery until it finally shows up.
Maybe practising 'drop shipping':
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/posting-items/setting-postage-options/drop-shipping?id=4176

Guess where this image comes from:


and where does this image come from:


One of them comes from this site:
https://www.super-hobby.se/products/M65-Atomic-Annie-Gun-Heavy-Motorized-280mm.html

and the other comes dfrom this site:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/202884174100

Now, which image comes from which site (no cheating by checking the image links!)?
/ Robin
18Bravo
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Colorado, United States
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 6,744 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 11:04 AM UTC
Another problem with the firing platforms: They can't be accurately replicated with PE. The actual grating is like that found on some outdoor fire escapes - it it comprised of vertical slats intersecting in a rectangular pattern. It is not any kind of steel mesh or expanded steel. This could easily have been done in styrene, even if it required two layers. Perhaps Trumpeter used one of the museum examples in their research that actually replaced the grate with expanded steel. There is one.
Kevlar06
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,286 posts
AeroScale: 758 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 11:16 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Someone could be selling kits that have not been produced yet. The delivery will drag on forever, buyers will start complaining about delivery until it finally shows up.
Maybe practising 'drop shipping':
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/posting-items/setting-postage-options/drop-shipping?id=4176

Guess where this image comes from:


and where does this image come from:


One of them comes from this site:
https://www.super-hobby.se/products/M65-Atomic-Annie-Gun-Heavy-Motorized-280mm.html

and the other comes dfrom this site:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/202884174100

Now, which image comes from which site (no cheating by checking the image links!)?
/ Robin



Yeah! That’s exactly what I’m talking about! does that look like 1/35 tooling? Especially around the grab handles, exhausts, and in regards to the platforms on the M65 gun carriage (which are pictured farther on in the Ebay photos). These came directly from the 1/35 offering above, but they are clearly photos of the Dragon 1/72 scale kit. Which tells me the seller in the Ebay offering doesn’t have the kit yet (if at all). Buyer beware!
VR, Russ
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
KITMAKER NETWORK
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Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 11:21 AM UTC
The Super Hobby link is a web-shop selling the Dragon Black Label M65 so both images show the 1/72 Dragon kit.

Super Hobby is a very useful resource since they usually have sprue images and the complete set of instructions.

/ Robin
KurtLaughlin
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,289 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 01:54 PM UTC
I would not put any value on the Ebay listing photos or even its validity as an actual listing. There's not much to be gained by hashing over the particulars; simply stating that the pictures aren't of the kit on sale but something else will suffice.

When this kit comes out - and I'm pretty sure it will - it will be available in the usual places at the usual prices but we'll be able to tell it is real.

KL
KurtLaughlin
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,289 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 02:10 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Another problem with the firing platforms: They can't be accurately replicated with PE. The actual grating is like that found on some outdoor fire escapes - it it comprised of vertical slats intersecting in a rectangular pattern. It is not any kind of steel mesh or expanded steel. This could easily have been done in styrene, even if it required two layers. Perhaps Trumpeter used one of the museum examples in their research that actually replaced the grate with expanded steel. There is one.



They probably did the best they could. Grating like this was used on German AAA halftracks and DML used mesh on frames to simulate it.

I would not say welded bar grating is an easy thing to mold in 1/35 plastic. The thickness of the bearing bars relative to their depth is really problematic. It would be quite a feat make these anywhere near the scale sizes and configuration.

KL
18Bravo
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Colorado, United States
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 6,744 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 03:55 PM UTC

Quoted Text


They probably did the best they could.
KL



Sadly, that’s probably a true statement. However, the ancient Italeri Priest kit has a similar grate for the exhaust cover and it's reasonably well done for its day. The technology exists - Cannon and Company and Detail Associates have been producing ridiculously tiny and detailed parts in styrene for as far back as I can remember, including dynamic brake fan housings. The firing platforms would obviously have a bit of a draft to them, but as long as the thinner edge were on top no one would ever notice.
What is noticeable is using the wrong material altogether. Either they used the wrong carriage (with replacement expanded steel) for their research or they just didn't care.

The good news is this is something I could actually see someone designing for 3D printing instead of some of the other baffling requests I see. Flotation collar for an M109 sticks in my mind for some reason...
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
KITMAKER NETWORK
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Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 5,889 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 06:35 PM UTC
Panzer Concepts have done grates for the German halftracks so Billie could probably do it.
/ Robin
alchemymike
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Texas, United States
Joined: December 14, 2011
KitMaker: 181 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 09:59 PM UTC
i messaged the Ebay seller and he said the Atomic Annie is Trumpeter and it is in stock
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
KITMAKER NETWORK
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 5,889 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 11:39 PM UTC

Quoted Text

i messaged the Ebay seller and he said the Atomic Annie is Trumpeter and it is in stock



How very strange. The catalogues for 2020/2021 for both Trumpeter and HobbyBoss on their common Facebook-page have been updated with new images quite recently but I completely failed to find any reference whatsoever to any Atomic Annie in any scale.
IF it was alreay in stock I would have expected to see at least a blurry B&W image.
There is plenty of images of other kits which have not been released yet though ...